CanadianBrad

I'm not trying to start an argument here. I have never been associated with the union, but both my dad and granddad were, years and years ago. I've kept up-to-date on some of the "tool list" threads over in the tools area, and on nearly every one of them, someone associated with a union brings up a "Union Tool List". My understanding from reading some of these posts is that according to union rules, you are required to provide your own tools, according to what's on the list. Beyond that, you are not to supply anything. If this is a false impression, feel free to stop me there.

If that is in fact the case, could someone help me understand that? I'm non-union, and if I see fit to supply a tool, I go out, buy it, and use it. My boss has never complained. He supplies me with my power tools and specialty tools. However, I went out and bought myself a cordless drill. He'd already got one for me, but it was an old DeWALT XRP, Ni-Cad, and pretty well ready for retirement. I showed up at the shop with my new Makita LXT, and we had a discussion, went(sort of) like this:

Boss: Get yourself a new drill?
Brad: Yeah, you gave me an old one. Has plenty of life left in it, but it's kind of lacking.
Boss: You know that I'm not buying that one, right?
Brad: No sir, I bought this one with my own dollar, and it is my own personal property. I assume all responsibility for it, and shalt not hold you responsible if it is lost, stolen, or damaged in the course of use, nor shall I hold you responsible if I drill through my hand.
Boss: Very good. I will continue to supply drill bits and general related accessories, but I will not be purchasing extra batteries/chargers/etc. specific to your drill.
Brad: I understand that, sir. This just allows me to do my job a little easier. Makes me more comfortable(I'm happy) and more efficient(you're happy).
Boss: Very good. Off to work with you.

Now, my understanding of the union rules is that the union could penalize me in some way for this. Hence my confusion. This tool is paid for from my own pocket, for my own use on the jobsite, because I find it to be more comfortable to use, which benefits me. As an extension of that, I am more efficient at work, which is a benefit for the boss. Everybody wins, in my mind.

If this is in fact correct, could someone tell me what kind of penalty you may suffer for this kind of infraction? And the thought process behind the decision? Also, if you're willing to share your local's tool list with me, so I can get an idea, I'd be curious.

Again, not really wanting to start an argument. Just wondering.

Speedy Petey

I have heard some crazy and stupid union rules with regard to this. Let's just say your efficiency is not their main concern.

I will say, even if you drill through your hand with your own personal drill, at work, it is STILL a WC case.

Big John

The ostensible function of a union is to ensure fair worker treatment.

One of the driving methods to reaching that goal is to ensure that all workers are put into similar circumstances.

To that end: If some sparky won the lottery and brought in a 10 piece Dewalt kit, he might be able to work circles around poor saps who could only afford hack-saws and the company's corded drills.

The lottery winner would get promoted because of his luck in life, and not necessarily because of unusual talent, and by comparison the other electricians are out in the cold.

So the Tool List is an attempt to ensure that everyone is judged purely on their ability when the playing field is level.

-John

ibuzzard

Under a union contract, wages ,conditions, benefits - and which tools are to be provided by each of the parties i.e. Contractor/and Employee is negotiated.

Thus,if you take it upon yourself to provide a tool that the contractor is obligated to provide,you've potentially given yourself an advantage.A contractor would be foolish to let personnel go whom he doesn't have to provide tools for.

And away we go.Some guys would provide much more than just a drill.Hand benders,k.o. sets, circuit tracers,cordless port-a bands, and on-and-on.

Others would not be able to provide these,and would be at a disadvantage.Off you go to the hall.

It is a contract,negotiated by two parties.That said, I would like to have cordless drills added to the tool list.Guys would take much better care of their own drill, and I could have my preference.

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drsparky

The union electrician is a available to any contractor, we all have the same tools and training.
Here is a scenario, you have have two electricians both equally qualified, job is winding down, who are you going to lay off? One has all tools on list, the other has his list plus his own battery drill, if you lay off the the guy with the battery drill you will need to purchase a new companny drill.
I've seen non union guys with there own gang box full of tools so they are important to he job. Some contractors will take advantage of their workers and have them compete for their jobs like this. Other non union contractor do the right thing and value their employes and have a culture of cooperation so we all make money. I thing both systems are valuable and never want to see everything union or non union.

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CanadianBrad

Makes sense, I suppose. So is there a standardized IBEW union tool list? Could someone give me an example?

And while I imagine some guys could go pretty far providing their own stuff(blurring the employee/sub-contractor line), surely there isn't any harm in bringing a few of your own hand tools?

erics37

It varies local to local. One standard procedure if you're travelling is to get a tool list for the local you're taking a call in. If you've got extra crap leave it at home.

I don't get dispatched out of the hall, I've been employed by the same shop for 6 years or so now. I've got a lot more tools than the ones on the tool list. Breaking the rules? Technically, yes, but on the other hand, it seems a minor rule to break, and as ibuzzard said, I've been more steadily employed than a hall sparky. Kind of makes me a wormy brother but whatever.

HARRY304E

I don't see any harm in it at all Remember the union guys can afford to bring their own tools but arent allowed too because it is unfair...

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erics37

Harry we vote on our own by-laws and we enter negotiations (which includes tool list items) represented by agents that we elect. We aren't "not allowed to," we make it that way ourselves.

The OP said he wasn't trying to start s**t so don't start s**t.

ibuzzard

Their is not a standardized list,but rather each local has its' own list.I'd imagine they are all quite similar.Basic screwdrivers, Pump(Channel-Lock) Pliers, Needle-Nose ,Dikes, Linemans, Stak-On Pliers, large and small adjustable wrenches, solenoid type voltage tester(my local allows a non-solenoid tester),tin-snips,large and small allen wrench sets(up to about 1/2") universal(swivel-type) screwdriver, tape measure, tap wrench, wood chisels, awl, hole-starting punch,offset screwdrivers, stubby screw drivers.

There are a few more.

On the other hand, in my area,the Union plumbers walk on the job without having to provide so much as a pencil!

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HARRY304E

Okay great.

The op said he is not in the Union and if he starts thinking that way he will lose his job.

If he wants to join the union that's great good for him.

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erics37

Here's the tool list for Local 932, verbatim:

1 pair side cutting pliers
1 pair diagonal cutting pliers
2 pair channel lock pliers
1 pair long nose pliers
1 10" adjustable wrench
1 Phillips screwdriver
1 Stubby screwdriver
1 5" blade screwdriver
1 8" blade screwdriver
1 scribe
1 hammer
1 wire skinning knife
1 tool container
1 center punch
1 torpedo level
1 set nut drivers (3/16" to 1/2"
1 tri-square
1 wire stripper
1 set Allen wrenches (3/16" to 3/8")
1 U.L. approved Wiggins or equal tester
1 insulated holding screwdriver
1 hacksaw with adjustable frame
1 3/4" x 12' steel tape measure
1 set combination wrenches (3/8" to 9/16" by 1/16ths)

Now it is also states in this clause that these tools are a MINIMUM, and that each Journeyman shall provide himself with an adequate set of hand tools to enable him to perform his particular classification of work.

There is also a clause which lays out the items specifically prohibited for us to supply on our own. It's mostly power tools and stuff.

360max

erics37

Are you pointing out my contradictions? I'm aware of them already, thanks though

ibuzzard

Almost all members that I know, have additional tools.Where to draw the line?When a member calls the hall or informs a job steward, and you and/or the crew receive a pep-talk.

I keep my contraband tools out in the trunk,and bring them in as needed.Then, back to the trunk they go.

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BBQ

Yeah, things like this make the union seem ridiculous.

A rule no one follows till it suits them to use it to bust balls.

HARRY304E

Just in case you did not know it in my state Electricians are required to be licensed whether or not you are in the union in an open shop Electricians are paid premium pay to hold those licenses and bring the tools required to perform Electrical work,
If you show up with a pair of pliers and a screwdriver in you back pocket the you will not last very long in an open shop even in a good economy


BTW you don't have to cuss to make your point...

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erics37

Probably not. As I mentioned, I have quite a few tools more than the tool list I posted, which after reading my Agreement again, technically doesn't really break the rules as our tool list is a minimum.

However if my employer started telling me to provide my own drills and power tools and stuff then it starts to get over the line in my opinion. In an open shop I might not necessarily have any protection against that.

360max

what are you supposed to show up with, a gang box and triple nickel?

ibuzzard

Most of the illegal items would be small stuff.Certainly not drills and electrical tools.

I've had carpal tunnel surgery on both hands for instance, and will occasionally use my own ratcheting cable cutters when all battery operated ones are in use.


This has occurred perhaps 3-4 times in the last five years.I need to balance my need for taking care of my perpetually sore hands,versus honoring the spirit, if not the letter, of the contract.I feel no guilt.


Bob,you're a bigger manure-disturber than I am.I can appreciate that

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Dump B4T the ShizStain, and bring back Peter D!
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