Quote:
Originally Posted by bward76
]What is it you can't live with?? Beats you to death with an inside agreement? Cry me a river. An agreement that protects us from being taken advantage of? If you can complete the training we are required to go through, working inside the agreement (that is agreed upon by us) is nothing more than knowing we are entitled to a safe work place with people who at a minimum have had the training I have.
|
Do you honestly think that IBEW has anything to do with jobsite safety or protects you in any way? How naïve you must be. As a contractor I fear OSHA and lawyers about a thousand times more than IBEW and as all contractors have learned jobsite safety is more than a choice its either the biggest liability you can have or its almost a profit center because of what you can save in insurance, you can even sell your work at a higher rate with the right insurance modifiers. The biggest safety issues I have now are IBEW not following rules, not wearing hard hats, not wearing safety glasses, and not doing lock out tag out procedures, and not passing drug tests. Here is a clue for you… that inside agreement does not do jack for your safety. Maybe a 100 years ago trade union did a lot for job site safety, but our legal lottery mentality and the growth of the legal community and ambulance chasing has done more for your safety than any union ever has, ever will, or even ever could do.
Before you wax on and on about you and your brothers superior training, I have to point out that while there are some damn fine electricians that come out of the program there are also quite few that just don’t cut the mustard. I could post several hundred megs of picture of your brothers work that is just plain embarrassing. If pride means so much then maybe some of your brothers should read 110.12 and consider the words and what that might mean when you put them all together in a sentence like that.
All electricians are not created equal, some are true craftsmen and fantastic mechanics while others aren’t fit to work at McDonalds. I call my best electricians mechanics their work is perfect and we take pictures of it for bragging rights. Out of eight of my best mechanics only 3 went through the JATC, and all three of my very best foreman did not go through the program at all and were organized out of a non-union shop. IBEW brings manpower with lots of strings to the table, but there is no guaranty of quality, or that the man standing next to you knows what he is doing, is sober, or that you are any safer working next to him than a non-organized person.
Quote:
|
How is it hard to swallow that an organization invest money into a young man or woman to give them an education and provides them with multiple companies to work for and a good wage.
|
Where do you think that money comes from that IBEW so generously invests? Read your agreement for yourself, see how much we as contractors invest in that program, and no it’s not just part of your pay otherwise it would be taxed. You do know IO controls it completely and we have little to no say in how its run, and that while the market is always changing; the program is very slow to any change. You should also know that IEC also has a program; IBEW is not the only game in town…
http://www.ieci.org/index.mv?screen=BecElect&xsub=1
While the union boys are busy calling everyone else rats, scabs, greedy, unsafe and un-organized the non-union shops are quite happy that you think so little of them as they are very organized and quietly take your work away. Look in your code book, note that IEC members sit in just as many code councils as do IBEW. Those rats are quite and a lot smarter, and a lot more qualified than IBEW would lead us all to believe. Since IBEW and your brothers don’t have a clue about business, I going to let you in on another important part of business: Pay attention to what your competition is doing. By labeling and looking down your nose at the open shops you have put blinders on and can’t see what is right in front of you.
Quote:
|
Yes they make money off of our dues. Have I ever had to look for a job in 15 years? NO. Go ahead and call it drinking the cool-aid or being held down by the man.
|
Really, a non-profit making money? Do you think your dues amount to anything? Seriously? The dues are chump change compared to the $9 per hour in fringes I pay for your labor. As for your 15 years, that is the first positive thing you wrote it implies you are actually worth a sh1t, especially if it’s for the same contractor. Can you say the same for every member of your local?
Quote:
|
I spent 5 years of my life going to school and had to work close to 10000 hours for my JW card. For that, I expect a decent wage package.
|
Big deal just because you went through the program you think you are worth something? You think you are special and owed something because you got training? Let me be the first to welcome you to the US workforce, and training without performance does not me anything. I got news for you there are lots of guys that go through that program that are not worth jack, I have hired boys fresh off daddy’s farm that make better hands than 3rd and 4th year apprentices that come out of your high mighty program.
Just like there are lots of liberal arts majors checking groceries at the supermarket. A man defines his own worth by his own actions, not his words, or some special card he carries in his pocket. Do you want fries with that?
I can’t tell you how many times I have had your brothers sit in my office, drink my coffee and tell me about all the power plants they have built and all the years or experience, all the men they have run, and how they are god’s gift to man, only to hire them so they can run 40’ of 4” in one day. Just because you belong to some special club and carry some special card does not mean jack to me. The only things I care about are performance, leadership, experience and intelligence; if you bring those to the table I will pay top dollar. All my best mechanics make more than I pay myself, and that is the market we live in. Any profit my company makes goes back into the company and when things slow down that same money is used to keep my best help busy even when it means taking jobs at cost and over-manning them. The problem is now I can’t even give a job away while you jacks-offs blather on and on about fair pay, brotherhood and solidarity. I take care of my people, but IBEW could care less if I go under, and would brag about it if they drove me under.
Quote:
|
Am I ashamed for being one of the higher paid electrician I know. Hell No. Most of my friends that are non union are great at what they do but have had a fraction of the education i had to do. (No need to argue value, we have beaten that horse one too many times). Almost all of them worked for different outfits for a number of years until they were told congrats your a JW.... oh and by the way we can’t afford you anymore. The difference between them and me is they had to hit the classifieds and find work. Is this fair?
|
Yeah I think opening the classifieds or putting a resume on monster is very fair, it might even give you a clue as to what your real market value is. If I lose this business and have to hit the streets for work, that is what I will do. In fact that is what 90% of the workforce does, why is it you think you are better than everyone else, is your pride and ego that big?
Quote:
|
Yes there is crap in our local just like there is crap in the non union sector... these people are increasingly ruining our creditability as the economy gets worse.
|
That’s a part I can’t live with. Why can’t I call a man by name? Why do we all pretend all IBEW members are equal? That is the part that is holding the good people back. You have a whole group at any given local that is crap and shows up to every meeting, and votes on issues that affect us all and a BA who knows to keep his job he has to deal with and protect that crap. You don’t have a fair voting system where you vote is private or absentee voting is allowed and you have clicks within your own ivory tower and they will eventually destroy it all. Its attrition, just look at IBEW’s market share over the past 20 years, where do you think this all leads to? Even when the work is flowing this is a problem, only when times get tough now it’s a freaking disaster. So why don’t the good guys stand up against the crap? Or is policing your own brothers such a hard thing to do? Oh and just so we are clear FLEs are crap too.
Quote:
|
We were built on the fact that people would pay top dollar in exchange for a company who employs trained personnel, has adequate tools and a lot of times work under a PLA. These days are over as quality is often overlooked by price. Our integrity and high level craftsmanship is all we could offer for our high prices. Customers don't care anymore as long as the plugs are hot and the lights fire up.
|
KOOL-AID!!!!!!!! Our non-union competitors do quality work and for less, it’s called the free market. IBEW does not have the soul rights to quality, especially when they can’t always deliver it themselves. Yes the free market will pay top dollar for quality AND PERFORMANCE. It’s the performance part of IBEW can’t seem to get right. Don’t give me some line about how your integrity won’t allow you to sacrifice safety for profits…bla bla bla I have heard all the spin and lies before. 8 hours of work for 8 hours of pay is that so hard?
Quote:
|
I'm sorry if this comes off like a rant but I'm sick of people portraying us as if we are working under this lead umbrella of rules. I lace up my boots and go to work just like everyone else. As Bob Badger stated before it's not for everyone. This isn't a direct jab at the non Union but more at the people who speak from hearsay about the agreement I work under.
|
I am tired of the typical union member hearsay about what they think our market is doing and what how think that inside agreement is some ultraistic document put in place to protect the workers from the man; you are working under a lead umbrella and IBEW is the “man” too only he is in the middle, it aint hearsay I am under that freaking umbrella and I have had it with IBEW member who are spoon fed indoctrination, lies and pride all their career who think all contractors own 5 vacation house and live the high life off the sweat of their backs, as the free market is whipping our asses. You ever beg for work? Ever grovel or kiss ass go get a job? Of course not you guys are to proud for that and only non-union electricians do that right? I got news for you buddy, I do it every day so guys like you can have a job. It’s called humility and it’s the opposite of pride.
Quote:
|
BTW- Phatelvis, I suggest quit talking about FLE's. Your lack of education on them doesn't need to be spread across this forum. And no, I am not one but close to a few.
|
Whatever… I am related one who is crippled and I am paying his mortgage right now as he waits for disability. Where are his FLE brothers now? My lack of education? Oh believe me I have had more than enough education on FLEs and the crap they pull on my jobs. Screw your FLE friends. When I find them I terminate them, as fast as I can, and when I catch them I file charges. As for all the FLE are good people hearsay, keep it to yourself none of the contractors are buying it.
Or maybe you are going to tell me it’s just a few bad apples making the good brothers look bad? That is a great argument, you know most non-union companies area mostly hard working good guys, but it’s just a few bad apples that make them look bad you know. Wow that works great when you turn it around.
You want a rant? Here ya go…
Linear Mode
