brian john

Would it be wrong of me to say YOU ARE FULL OF SH*T?

On Davis Bacon jobs contractors get audited and if they are not paying prevailing wages they are fined and FORCED TO PAY THE AGREED UPON WAGE. So once again you are WRONG.



Did I say you are full of SH*T?

Not to fan the flames

westernexplorer

Brian John,

You are the one who is so full of sh*t it is running out of your ears.....LOL.

I suppose because something is not happening under the watchful eyes of an expert like you, then it's not happening......keep trying to sell some more of that Right wing propaganda about how employers in America love and enjoy complying with the labor laws....LOL.

brian john

I did not say that, I said if they are caught violating Davis Bacon they will be fined and have to make back pay.

Do you disagree with that?

You said MOST employers, that is a bald face lie SOME YES most NO.

A blanket statement like yours is no different than someone saying all union electricians are slackers. NOT TRUE are some yes, are all HECK NO.

westernexplorer

Brian John,

Calling me a liar, is what is a bald face lie.

I will agree that when employer's are caught violating Davis-Bacon labor provisions that they are fined and sanctioned. However, many are not caught, just as speeder's on our highways. How many times have you driven passed the speed limit and not gotten a ticket, does that mean you don't speed...?

I stand by what I said, about most employers not respecting labor laws in America. They see them as REGULATION, which hamper business activities, just as they are suppose to. Not everything in America is about what's good for business. Many business organizations supported Child labor until the great depression, not because it was good for America, but good for there bottom line.

If you want to have an honest discussion about union's, lets do that. Calling me a liar, however is not true........you know better than that.

acmax

In areas of the country that fight hard to keep out the unions ( the south) wages are 15 to 20 % less for almost any given trade. Why is that?
Also take note that it is very hard to competitively bid against non union companies for most that I have witnessed on the job sites have very poorly trained personal, using temp agencies and day labor to fill the work load.
now this is just what I've seen , and I am not nor every have belonged to a union. There are plenty of good companies that operate at a high standard , but at any given moment are capable of practicing low ball tactics to bring in the bottom line.And having owned a business I know that good employees are worth everything to keep, but in today's type of
business models the $$ talks and nobody is that great.

jbberns

Funny, I'm in the IBEW and don't have any relatives in.
He makes a good point though. There Union Crybabies and Non Union Crybabies!

drsparky

Same here, no friends, no relatives, had to find it on a map to put my application in.

__________________
It's good to be the king.

westernexplorer

Same here, I didn't know a soul in the IBEW when I got in.....

LawnGuyLandSparky

Uh... I guess you never heard of double booking? Oh, and then there's that whole "You're getting this on the paycheck on Friday, better have $575.00 cash for me on Monday, Or you're not coming back to work..." thing that goes on.

LawnGuyLandSparky

Anybody who works in the construction industry expecting to be employed 100% of the time is only kidding themselves. Construction work is by nature cyclical. If you take a job paying less based on a promise of steady work, you've been lied to, and you're cheating yourself out of better wages.

I'd rather work for 49.00 an hour for 1/2 a year than for 25.00 an hour 12 months a year.

brian john

Because the cost of living is less. I can get twice the house in your state than I can get in Northern VA. for 1/2 the price. Taxes are lower as a percentage of income.

Move to NYC and make what you make, you might be forced to live in a box on the street, and an NYC electrician would live like a king on his NYC salary in your state.

brian john

OK you are not a liar, you know no better and are peddling the stuff you were fed.

The facts of life are in every field, trade, profession, walk of life, nationality, country and religion there are good and bad people. In my experience most people walk the straight line and er towards the good side. Until you can give me proof of anything different, I'll stand by my statement. For you to say most is BALONEY.

Minuteman

• I make above scale, and work 12 months.
• Most of them only get scale, and most of them work 12 months.

• I keep what I make.
• They pay dues.

• I have employer supplied health care for myself.
• They have Union supplied care for the whole family.

• I get paid holidays, vacation, sick days.
• They get what's on the check.

• I get OT for over 40.
• They get OT over 8.

I could go on and on, point is: it's subjective. It all depends on the part of this Once Great country that you live in and how well you market yourself. As it has been said, there is good and bad on both sides.

__________________
Proud dad of Sgt. Mickey, USMC 0311
"The Few, the Proud, the Infidel."
Battalion Landing team 2/4, 11th MEU

Lone Crapshooter

The local in this area is one if the premier "country club "locals in the country. They have been sued over their apprenticeship selection process. In the 70's it was standard operating practice to have 10 openings and take 9 sons and one soon to be son-in-law.
But it was fair I know that because they said it was.

westernexplorer

Lone,

You are right, it does still go on.......I would say less than the past, but never the less it still happens.

Brian John,

You really do think alot of yourself, your the authority on what goes on in this country.

Tell me this is not true, so I and the rest of the board can get a good laugh. Everytime the US Congress attempts to raise the minimum wage or pass a law making it easier for workers to organize into a union for better pay and conditions. The major objecters are the Business (UNIONS) like the Chamber of Commerce, US Manufacturers Association and every other Business union in the country. When workers band together to push for change its somehow seen as evil. However, when business's band together for there interest it's the American way.

Brian John, they had a name for people like you in the 1800's, it was called "Snake Oil Salesman".

I don't blame you though, you are just another brain washed victim of the corporate media and that includes FOX News, who twist everything with a coporate slant. If I see another story on TV about how we need more illegal mexican's and more indian's to teach us about computer programming, because America is short of skilled workers, I think I'm going to through-up.......

BDB

This is the most accurate post on this topic I have seen.

__________________
Proud Father of a US Army Solider

westernexplorer

Minuteman,

I agree that things are subjective. I know some non-union electrician's who are great electricians and earn top wages and benefits. Wouldn't agree though, that on average, union electricians are paid a higher wage & retirement, in general...?

Minuteman

Minimum wage??? Talk about Snake oil! Minimum wage is nothing but a Democrat ploy to buy the uneducated vote. Raising it will only raise inflation. It could never equate to a living wage.

On the average: True. I have said here before, that the main thing that I will miss from my stint will be my pension.

__________________
Proud dad of Sgt. Mickey, USMC 0311
"The Few, the Proud, the Infidel."
Battalion Landing team 2/4, 11th MEU

brian john

OF COURSE that happens, is it the NORM no, Do most contractors do this NO. BUT SOME people take one example and SWEAR it is the truth across the board. In that case they are liars, full of crap or ignorant of the truth.

Union men have a bad rep in open shops as lazy slackers, is this true NO! Are some union men lazy slackers you bet.

All open shop men have a reputation in the union as not knowing how to do quality electric work. Is this true NO, are some hacks? YES! sure they are.

brian john

westernexplorer:

What you do not think about (based upon your post) is that increasing wages does NOTHING. Be it minimum wage or scale. EVERYTHING RISES to match it.


The point is not whether I knowm more than you (which there is little doubt I do just ask me), but that anytime you make such a blanket statement you show how small you are. Much in the vein of a bigot that makes blanket statements about minorities, gays or religion.