unionize! - Page 4 - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum

acmax · 07-03-2009, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian john

Because the cost of living is less. I can get twice the house in your state than I can get in Northern VA. for 1/2 the price. Taxes are lower as a percentage of income.

Move to NYC and make what you make, you might be forced to live in a box on the street, and an NYC electrician would live like a king on his NYC salary in your state.

You know that is just a cop out

Stupid remarks That try to hide cheap
plantation mentality business owners in the south.
That comment has nothing to do with paying someone with a certain level of skill a respectful wage reflective of the time it takes to gain such skills.Demographics sure has become the go to excuse for cheap employers. So 20yrs ago when I moved from West New York to south Florida And they joked that the pay was less because Sunshine every day was part of your compensation package was the truth also.Ha.! They get away with it because of the collusion of business owners that keep out competition.IMO

Opps my anger management class is not working.

Minuteman · 07-03-2009, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LawnGuyLandSparky

I make above scale, and work 12 months.

This is not true for MOST nonunion electricians. Who's your daddy?
Most of them only get scale, and most of them work 12 months.

MOST nonunion electricians don't even know what "scale" is.
I keep what I make.

Good for you. I pay 1% dues, but it's 100% tax deductable, so basically YOU pay my union dues.
They pay dues.

So, you don't knock over anthills whiole working in a hornet's nest...
I have employer supplied health care for myself.

And all the others? Oh that's right, you're not concerned about them...
They have Union supplied care for the whole family.

I get paid holidays, vacation, sick days.

My paid holiday check is $301.04, there are 10 holidays.
My vacations (5 weeks, 6 after 30 years) are paid, + $2500.00 to "enjoy" it...
We get 0 sick days. No work, no pay.
They get what's on the check.

They get what they get, 99 & 44/100ths % of the time a boatload LESS that any union worker earns.
I get OT for over 40.

They get OT over 8.

I get OT for over 7 a day, or 35 hrs a week.

I could go on and on, point is: it's subjective. It all depends on the part of this Once Great country that you live in and how well you market yourself. As it has been said, there is good and bad on both sides.

I wasn't comparing my job to LU 3, I was comparing my job to LU 1141, genius. FYI, not all locals have the same deal.

westernexplorer · 07-03-2009, 01:39 AM

acmax,

The plantation metality is still going strong. Snake Oil Salesman, selling ice to the eskimo's.......Its how they get poor people to vote for policy's that only benefit the rich and powerful. Conservative talk radio dominates the airwaves in the nation, not because it's ideas are superior or actually work. They get a steady and very large infusion of cash form Coporate America and big business......

Minuteman · 07-03-2009, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westernexplorer

The plantation metality is still going strong. Snake Oil Salesman, selling ice to the eskimo's.......Its how they get poor people to vote for policy's that only benefit the rich and powerful. Conservative talk radio dominates the airwaves in the nation, not because it's ideas are superior or actually work. They get a steady and very large infusion of cash form Coporate America and big business......

Sure, cause Air America did so well with all the money from the DNC and the ACLU. Oops, my bad. Conservative talk ACTUALLY has an audience.

LawnGuyLandSparky · 07-03-2009, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knowshorts

And a lot of employees want it to be one-sided.

I would disagree. What labor laws are you referring to? I would say most employers were labor at one time, too. The only time I have really heard of employers try to change labor laws, is when CA went to a 40 hour work week before overtime, rather than after 8 hours. Employers (even large corporations) don't want to dismantle labor laws, they just want their people to produce.

Negative.

Americans produce. Corporations want MORE and they want to pay LESS. Like the "flextime" Bush tried to push through - work OT this week, your employer gives you that many hours off by next week.

Everytime it's suggested the minimum wage be raised, out come the corporate shills crying about how many jobs will be lost. Unemployment never goes up whenever the minimum wage is increased. Today, if the wage followed inflation, minimum wage would be between $14.00 and $16.00 an hour.

Quote:

If work was being done, without all the bitching and moaning that goes on by lazy, entitled, American workers, do you really think we would have lost millions of jobs to Mexico, India, China, etc?

We didn't lose jobs because of American apathy. Would you pay a seamstress 14.00 an hour to sew jeans together when you can pay 16.00 a day to an entire familt to sew jeans together?

Quote:

I have heard union guys making $70+ package bitch and complain because they find out their employer is billing out at $125 an hour. They have no idea the costs to run a business.

That's a completely different issue. I hear a 200 amp service in Florida costs about the same as here on Long Island. Yet in Florida, the journeyman doing the job is NOT making $35.00 an hour. Stop trying to justify wage erosion by claiming the rest of the disparity is business related overhead. That's a cop out.

LawnGuyLandSparky · 07-03-2009, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knowshorts

LGLS,
Could you please do me a favor and pay just the interest on my house. It's around $6000 a year and it's 100% tax deductible. Thanks.

Explorer,
You need to remember there is a big difference between a contractor and an employee. Contractors took a huge financial leap and went into business.

This isn't exactly true. Ther biggest investment in any business is TIME. Many employers started with a van and basic tools and just grew, this was especially true in the 60's - 80's. And yes it takes money to make money, but just because someone "risks" going into business doesn't mean they get to control every aspect of it.

Further, most of the largest employers got there by buying other successful businesses out. Not much risk-taking there...

Quote:

Employees just want to show up.

Just want to show up and what, sleep? Every person in the world who gets up and goes to work is trading a day of their life and their skills for money.

Quote:

Of course, contractors want to get the most value for their employees. Contractors will pay top dollar to guys who make them top dollar. The guys that don't cut it, will not get raises just because its June 1st. It is the American way to have different pay scales for different people.

Actually, for generations many wages were pretty static and predictable. And you either met the standard of expectation or you didn't get a job or hold it very long.

Quote:

Employees will only get paid what they think their worth. If they are getting underpaid or treated like crap (by the examples you stated above), then they should move on.

There are other options, just because you don't like them doesn't mean they're wrong. Funny how in the midst of an organizing campaign many employers suddenly shower their workers with higher wages... did everybody suddenly become more productive during the campaign?

Fed-Ex did it when the teamsters started their highly publicized organizing drive. And supply-demand economics plays into it too. Guaranteed any contractor advertizing for help right now is "churning" their workforce - looking to replace guys who are making high wages with new blood that is hungry. Hire 3 guys at 20.00, the ROW 3 guys making 30.00 and the contractor makes out like a bandit pocketing another $1200.00 a week.

oldman · 07-03-2009, 05:45 AM

god bless this country...to have the ability to espouse biased opinions and try to pass them off as facts....and have absolutely no repercussions...

i honestly wouldn't want it any other way....

Toronto Sparky · 07-03-2009, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldman

god bless this country...to have the ability to espouse biased opinions and try to pass them off as facts....and have absolutely no repercussions...

i honestly wouldn't want it any other way....

There were falsehoods?
Other than the $37 / hr thing.. Any Licensed trades person in North America settle that low?
Minimum wage should be at least $15 /hr But Walmart would board up the doors.

Of course one could head into the auto sector where one gets $30 +/ hr unskilled labour..

These days anyone that took the time to be trained deserves to be clearing a grand a week. (Week being 37.5 hrs)
All said and done.. Union is the way to spend your life..

oldman · 07-03-2009, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toronto Sparky

There were falsehoods?
Other than the $37 / hr thing.. Anyone Licensed trades person in North America settle that low?
Minimum wage should be at least $15 /hr But Walmart would board up the doors.

Of course one could head into the auto sector where one gets $30 +/ hr unskilled labour..

All said and done.. Union is the way to spend your life..

again biased opinion being passed off as fact...

look at countries like Germany, Sweden, Britain, etc that operate the way many of you want the US to operate...

yep, the average wage is higher, but the standard of living is heavily subsidized by the government...because the cost of living is quite high...

i believe that up in Canada, you guys are in a similar boat...high taxes and government subsidies...

as for union being the way to spend your life....maybe if you want to spend your life working for someone else...but it's really a personal choice, isn't it?

Toronto Sparky · 07-03-2009, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldman

again biased opinion being passed off as fact...

look at countries like Germany, Sweden, Britain, etc that operate the way many of you want the US to operate...

yep, the average wage is higher, but the standard of living is heavily subsidized by the government...because the cost of living is quite high...

i believe that up in Canada, you guys are in a similar boat...high taxes and government subsidies...

as for union being the way to spend your life....maybe if you want to spend your life working for someone else...but it's really a personal choice, isn't it?

I live in Canada And will die in Canada (they tell me within 3 years) Without my Union "IBEW" I may already be dead. I have trouble getting out of a chair these days. But thanks to our benefit package I still have a income.
You wanna argue with that? Well on top of that I was making $1000 / week (after taxes) back before ALS started to take it's toll.
I truly believe the skilled trades in North America are being underrated.
We are the best in the world..

oldman · 07-03-2009, 06:26 AM

What's to argue?

brian john · 07-03-2009, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acmax

You know that is just a cop out

Stupid remarks That try to hide cheap
plantation mentality business owners in the south.
That comment has nothing to do with paying someone with a certain level of skill a respectful wage reflective of the time it takes to gain such skills.Demographics sure has become the go to excuse for cheap employers. So 20yrs ago when I moved from West New York to south Florida And they joked that the pay was less because Sunshine every day was part of your compensation package was the truth also.Ha.! They get away with it because of the collusion of business owners that keep out competition.IMO

Opps my anger management class is not working.

So it makes no sense that I can buy a house in Burlington for $245,000.00, 4 bedrooms 2.5 baths on 1/3 of an acre all brick all 4 sides, that up here would cost 550,000.00. My apologies leave NC and come to work here for your wages and try to live.

My taxes on my house are $12,500.00 a year and YOURS? I know based on home values I pay more in homeowners insurance. BUT, ME I JUST AN OLD SLAVE owner, I mean being from Alaska we had a lot of plantations, unlike NC.

They get away with it because that is the way it is NO COLLUSION. Collusion is what a union does. Employees get caught doing this and it is defended by the NRLB. When business owners are caught the FBI is knocking on their door.

One more question, who is going to pull us out of this recession/depression workers? or business that risk capital to grow?

From the OP

Quote:

no union bashing or anything just facts

And you tink we can avoid that?

LawnGuyLandSparky · 07-03-2009, 09:17 AM

So it makes no sense that I can buy a house in Burlington for $245,000.00, 4 bedrooms 2.5 baths on 1/3 of an acre all brick all 4 sides, that up here would cost 550,000.00. My apologies leave NC and come to work here for your wages and try to live.

So the house is less - because the land is cheap and plentiful, plus people wouldn't buy an average home for a Northern price. Taxes I believe are less though many areas don't supply water, or garbage pickup, or leaf pickup, and did you catch that thread about staying away from all the dirty cops down there? All of this still doesn't justify wages that run 1/2 what they are up here - autos, car insurance, utilities, clothing, food, vacations, college tuition... all of that costs the same.

My taxes on my house are $12,500.00 a year and YOURS? I know based on home values I pay more in homeowners insurance.

I'd say the same or less, up here we hardly ever see devastating Cat 5 storms. Plus, no matter how bad the storm you still own the property - it is the dirt under your house that's more valuable than what's on it - and it isn't covered, so insurance costs are based on loss/reconstruction figures.

BUT, ME I JUST AN OLD SLAVE owner, I mean being from Alaska we had a lot of plantations, unlike NC.

They get away with it because that is the way it is NO COLLUSION. Collusion is what a union does. Employees get caught doing this and it is defended by the NRLB. When business owners are caught the FBI is knocking on their door.

One more question, who is going to pull us out of this recession/depression workers? or business that risk capital to grow?

Who CAUSED it? Not us peons that's for sure. Who SHOULD pay?

From the OP

And you tink we can avoid that?

brian john · 07-03-2009, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LawnGuyLandSparky

Who CAUSED it? Not us peons that's for sure. Who SHOULD pay?

t?

Well many have a hand in this, those folks that took negative equity mortgages or other creative financing that our congress allowed to be given out. Greedy wall streeters and blind bankers that took chances they never should have and the blame goes on and on. But there is plenty of blame for those in the working class that borrowed more than they should have.

My father was a banker and CPA he always said bankers should wear blue suits and white shirts because they are conservative, NOT RISK TAKERS which is what they did with our money in the last 20 years.

Loose Neutral · 07-03-2009, 09:53 AM

Brian John Do you guys have self solicitation In local 26? Is that the local your out of? 26's local do they have branch locals? Are you saying all guys coming of the list are bums or you saying you don't want to risk getting a bum of the list?

brian john · 07-03-2009, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westernexplorer

acmax,

The plantation metality is still going strong. Snake Oil Salesman, selling ice to the eskimo's.......Its how they get poor people to vote for policy's that only benefit the rich and powerful. Conservative talk radio dominates the airwaves in the nation, not because it's ideas are superior or actually work. They get a steady and very large infusion of cash form Coporate America and big business......

So once again you would want to limit freedoms and curtail speech? All because your boys can muster a decent show that the public wants to hear. (And I NEVER LISTEN TIO RUSH or similar shows). Man you are so AMERICAN, happy May Day. I mean 4th of July.

brian john · 07-03-2009, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loose Neutral

Brian John Do you guys have self solicitation In local 26? Is that the local your out of? 26's local do they have branch locals? Are you saying all guys coming of the list are bums or you saying you don't want to risk getting a bum of the list?

I think there are 100's of VERY GOOD men on the bench (unfortunately) and maybe 1 out of a 100 is a PIA (maybe less). DO I want to gamble on that NO. I prefer to interview my employees and pick the best IMO.

westernexplorer · 07-03-2009, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian john

They get away with it because that is the way it is NO COLLUSION. Collusion is what a union does. Employees get caught doing this and it is defended by the NRLB. When business owners are caught the FBI is knocking on their door.

One more question, who is going to pull us out of this recession/depression workers? or business that risk capital to grow?

Your shoveling again.....LOL. The Oil companies, big insurance, and the list goes on are in COLUSION all the time..... I'm sorry, the Oil Companies, investigated themselves and found they didn't fix the price of gasoline....and Congress and the President said if you say so....another campaign contribution please...?

Minuteman,

You should do better homework. You are right about Air America hurting for cash. I can see why Business's would line up to give them money, because they talk about raising the minimum wage, national health insurance, worker rights........oh I forgot, Rush talks about all those things on the EIB network.

Rush Limbaugh is a coporate shill who never misses a chance to bash unions and try and make everyone feel sorry for those poor CEO's on Wall Street.....Snake Oil Saleman he is.

My Father is a small business owner for the last 35 years and he will tell you that small business and coporate America, have nothing in common......Rush would have you believe different.....ofcourse he is a Snake Oil Saleman.....LOL.

brian john · 07-03-2009, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westernexplorer

Your shoveling again.....LOL. The Oil companies, big insurance, and the list goes on are in COLUSION all the time..... I'm sorry, the Oil Companies, investigated themselves and found they didn't fix the price of gasoline....and Congress and the President said if you say so....another campaign contribution please...?

You man is in office and unemployment is on the rise as is the price of gasoline and you propoganda for this?

Quote:

Rush Limbaugh is a coporate shill who never misses a chance to bash unions and try and make everyone feel sorry for those poor CEO's on Wall Street.....Snake Oil Saleman he is.

SO you were curtail his rights, RIGHT.

Quote:

My Father is a small business owner for the last 35 years and he will tell you that small business and coporate America, have nothing in common......Rush would have you believe different.....ofcourse he is an Snake Oil Saleman.....LOL.

Small business are corporate America, most job creations are in small business. Once again you are sooooo off the mark. But I expected that.

westernexplorer · 07-03-2009, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian john

Small business are corporate America, most job creations are in small business. Once again you are sooooo off the mark. But I expected that.

If you think so, just go down sign up for your bailout check, then you find out your not the same......no money for you or my father.....but they sure have plenty for the Banks, Insurance Companies, Big Auto Companies.....I thought you were smarter than that, Brian John...

By the way, Obama is not my man, this country has not had a decent President since before you or me. The Republa-Crats are screwing this country up good. Just ask them, when either party is in power, it's always the other parties fault.....lol