Minuteman

I don't know if any of this debate has convinced the OP one way or the other, but I have decided that I will not talk old - when I get old.

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"The Few, the Proud, the Infidel."
Battalion Landing team 2/4, 11th MEU

Bob Badger

Dude, I have no interest in trying to discuss this with you, you are obviously a one sided guy who can not read a post without getting upset.

I hope your have a long happy retirement and your meds keep you healthy.

westernexplorer

You guys are all wrong.....Ha..Ha..Ha.... Just kidding....Man, someone turned the heat up in this thread...LOL.

brian john

The great thing about this country is up till now we all have a freedom to work where we please (with certain exceptions and I will avoid delving into these).

Many open shop men have a bitterness against the IBEW, there are legitimate reasons for this many times, at least in the workers mind. I was bitter against the IBEW for some mistreatment I received as a open shop worker and as a new union member, but swallowed my distaste for the consistent money and benefits.

Many union men are bitter against open shop workers feeling they are stealing their work. Which ain't so but is a legitimate perception.

Can't we all just get along? HELL NO so it seems.

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I void warranty's

retired 7373

Dude as i said you are running off at the mouth- this is not a union non union thing this is about some jerk saying peopel deserve to be paid less because of what is best for the customer when he himself is making a great salary and benefits yet he does not think other people deserve those same benefits.
The customer should have to pay for decent wages and benefits and then you have people like bob come along and tells the customer he can give them the lowest price and a bunch of other lies, yet he does not tell the customer how much he is making off the customer just that no one else should make a decent salary.
I am so happy that I no longer have to put up with people like you.
I dont expect everybody to be union or non union, expect people to be paid a decent wage and benefits. All this crap about entilements is just that crap. You benefit daily from the system we have in the United States . And yes i do take the wages and benefits seriously.

Bob Badger

Again your not discussing you busy calling names and ignoring what I really posted. Your post above could not be father from the truth, but you are not interested in any truths only typical Union brainwashed BS.

Have a great retirement.

If you decide to discuss the issue like an adult let me know.

miller_elex

I wish Bob was at Starbucks!! He's too talented in the trade for that, I know, he's like a codencyclopedia-come-handbook of all-trades.

But we need more like him. The $5 lattes need to stop. They probably cost a quarter to make, and my wallet feels the pain when the wife stops there daily. Who the hell are these people to charge me $5 a cup when they need just $1 to keep the lights on???

Hell, I'll bet Bob gave more than his share of free sweat and grease when he last roped in an espresso joint. Don't get me started on those folks that sell shoes made in China by slave labor for more than a hundred bucks. What about that $500k triple bypass? Does your mother take and $300 pills?

What? Bob didn't rope that one? Yeah, but he was hovering over the plan table and talking on the phone the whole time a couple second-year guys did all the legwork. Still, talking shop with the PM on the drive too and from work and looking at the plans at home, well, that's still work isn't it? Even if its not necessarily paid time, it's Bob, giving his share to the contractor's overhead.

Bob, your altruism stinks, and its holding the rest of us down. We electricians are professionals, and we are middle-class. It takes an educated, experienced, and intelligent professional to do profitable installations at more than a basic level. We are entitled to that middle-class lifestyle, just like white-collar people, who have a license to steal, believe they are entitled to.

How it ends, is when intelligent gents such as yourself, are brought into the game. You don't have the belief in yourself that you are good enough, and continue to lack self-confidence and be a people pleaser. Your tendency to please people that you see as important for praise in return, continues the cycle. Well, you are good enough, now quit giving away the skills you worked so many years and studied hard to acquire!

Hardwork is honorable indeed. Now, to feel satisfied when you give something away to the contractor, that is getting your head screwed on backwards. The contractor surely will convince you when times are tough, to take a share of his burden, understand his risk and give a little more, but when times are good, don't expect much more than your paycheck when he gets his big profits! Yes, I have seen the hush hush incentives for foremen, but they are a pretty penny compared to how much they really bring in.

Another way it ends is when competent folks are brought in from third world countries who feel as if to get a fraction of what we make is a windfall lottery, look whats happened to computer programmers and sheet rockers.

Bob, don't lead the impressionable youngsters down this path, implying that there is some kind of glory in guzzling three rockstars and burning up their bodies. It will haunt yah, and if it won't, I hope the Brotherhood will.

220/221

How many non union workers are there?


It's not about right/wrong, it's about choices.


Personally, I hated belonging the unions. They were as corrupt and narrow minded as politicians.

Like so many other things they are a good concept gone bad. Their basic message got corrupted over the years into the stereotypical image they "enjoy" today.

Toronto Sparky

I'm thinking you have to be union if your gonna be buying stuff at Starbucks.
Besides Tim Hortons is Sooooo much better.

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Don't fight .. Play nice!

Bob Badger

Anther guy that has forgotten what I actually posted and made up his own version for both of us.

Your doing great job keeping that closed mind stereotype rolling.

Black4Truck

WOW .. first, who is WE?? Try and find 1 other person who share your views on this forum.

If you took your head out of your a$$, you might of read some of Bob's posts before making yourself look like a fool in need of new meds

retired 7373

They showed a segment on tv here about Tim Hortons, it was a good show. Who would have known.

drsparky

I like Tim Hortons coffee and donuts, hate Krispy Kream.

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"Whatever is felt is within suffering."

retired 7373

I read what Bob posted and I understand exactly what he meant. As for the we it should have read I.
When Bob goes home and tells his wife they are selling the house and moving into a cheap apartment and that he is voluntering to take a 50% cut in pay because this is whats needed to be fair to the customer then I will think he and most likely you are not talking out your ass.
After all why should the customer have to pay for Bob and his famly to live in a nice house, heck that is stealing from the customer and why should the customer have to pay for Bob to make a decent wage, another example of stealing from the customer.
I stated the part about the meds to show that I was being taken care of by the union and wondering how many non union contractors would have done this for one of their electricians. Again I understood exactly what Bob is saying.

Black4Truck

Some people just can't be helped

Bob Badger

Its obvious you do not.

Why not use the quote button on the exact part of my post you have a problem with and ask me a direct question about it?

Oh yeah, your having to much fun ranting.

westernexplorer

Brian John,

I too, started in the open shops before becoming an organized IBEW Brother. I too, had to walk the gontlet and put up with lots of crap from the welcoming committee....LOL. I think that every new organized guy in the IBEW has to "prove themselves" to the rank and file. But, I guess that the way it is with almost any organization.....like a green horn on a CRAB Boat in the Bering Sea....LOL. Some of us survive the trials and others choose to quit and go back to the open shops.


As I have said before and I think you would agree, even with all of the ups and downs I'm proud I stayed in the IBEW, IMO it's better than the alternative, but to each his own....

amptech

I don't understand why anyone is getting hung up on the "customer" issue and is taking it so far overboard. As an electrician, union or not, you have a right to expect to be reasonably compensated for your time and knowledge when you do a job. The employer has a right to expect he/she is getting their money's worth from the time they are paying the electrician to work. The customer has a right to expect the company they hired to give them good value for what they are paying, i.e. effective use of time(especially if it is a T&M job), quality materials and craftsmanship. Nobody is entitled to anything they don't work for or pay for. Simple as that. An old retired union electrician helped me quite a bit when I was first starting out and hadn't decided to try to get in to the IBEW or go open shop. He didn't push me one way or the other but he did tell me that if I did get in to the IBEW that I should be careful not to let it go to my head. He said the pay and benefits are bigger but along with them came higher expectations. He said too many guys top out and hit cruise control thinking they have made it and are entitled to a higher standard of living for the rest of their lives automatically. He said those are the guys who end up sitting the bench when they are in their 30s because no good contractor will waste their time with them. I've seen union and non-union outfits come and go over the last 30 years because they either cut corners, did hack work, took advantage of employees and couldn't keep them or charged Cadillac prices for Yugo work. The open market and time has a way of dealing with these type of things.

brian john

Krispy Kreme may be going out of business....bankrupt

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I void warranty's

brian john

One of my issues was once in was I was picked to be the foreman because of my knowledge and willingness to read about what was required (company was starting an electrical testing group). For this I received extreme crap. IMO jealousy and resentment.

AS for better I also believe in the long run with the consistency of pay and benefits one is better off.

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I void warranty's