Quote:
Originally Posted by retired 7373
I read what Bob posted and I understand exactly what he meant. As for the we it should have read I.
When Bob goes home and tells his wife they are selling the house and moving into a cheap apartment and that he is voluntering to take a 50% cut in pay because this is whats needed to be fair to the customer then I will think he and most likely you are not talking out your ass.
After all why should the customer have to pay for Bob and his famly to live in a nice house, heck that is stealing from the customer and why should the customer have to pay for Bob to make a decent wage, another example of stealing from the customer.
I stated the part about the meds to show that I was being taken care of by the union and wondering how many non union contractors would have done this for one of their electricians. Again I understood exactly what Bob is saying.
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I am not one to get embroiled in one of these discussions, but let's take a higher level view of whats going on....
retired 7373: Do you or your wife shop for the lowest price around for things that you purchase with your hard-earned money? (i.e. at your local supermarket, your local retail shops, etc.) How about when buying a new car? An new home? A new computer? Be honest.
I will bet that you AND your entire family shop around looking for the lowest price on anything that is consumed. It is that VERY capitalistic action that is driving the price that someone is willing to pay for your services and/or products. If the supply is small, the price goes up.
I am willing to bet that you will not pay 20% more for a car from a dealer just so you can feel good about contributing to the mechanics pension fund, or medical care plan. In fact, you are contributing to the very same pressures that are putting unionized and non-unionized folks out on the street collecting unemployment. We all are contributing.
Heck, why is there even bidding on projects? Just take the first price offered and be done with it.
The customer demand entitles us to work, and not the other way around. If the customer doesn't want to pay what you feel you are worth, they won't hire you. They may not hire anyone. It's their choice.
In order for any company to survive in a capitalist society (we are still capitalist, right?), they must provide a product or service for a price that a customer is willing to pay (assuming supply and demand are equal). That's the way it works - there really are no exceptions. The company makes a profit, and they get to stay in business and, most importantly - grow -hire more people - and help raise the standard of living. There will always be people that are willing to try to cheat the system - on both sides of the workforce. White collar folks do not feel anymore entitled than blue-collar folks. There are folks that steal in the union and in corporate America.
All the price shopping does is drive prices downward. This starts a chain reaction...the distributor/supplier shops around, causing the manufacturer to lower prices - somehow. Typically the cost of labor in the US is the highest component. If the manufacturer can't lower prices domestically...guess what? They move operations overseas, where the standard of living is much lower. This is why China has become the 'go-to' place for much of the world's manufacturing labor. Don't worry, China will eventually become too expensive (just like Taiwan and Japan are now), and the manufacturers will find other parts of the globe to set up shop. It will never end until the standard of living around the world stabilizes at a certain level.
Some unionized folks have a sense of entitlement that goes beyond a "fair and reasonable" view of value. The customer determines actual value, not the other way around. In many cases, this is why many "sanitation engineers" (i.e. garbage men) are making more money than a 1st grade teacher. We as a society have placed a higher value on getting rid of garbage, than in the molding our children's minds. Let's face it, the customer could care less about your pension, IRA, medical care, or you and your family. They are more concerned about their pension, IRA, medical care and their families.
As an Engineer, I am baffled at how peers of mine who help manage Hedge Funds make 1000% more salary than I do. What about pro-athletes? (don't get me started!
) I feel I have more complicated knowledge, skill, education, and a more difficult job - thus I should have more perceived value. Somehow, the market doesn't agree.
So be it. I am happy with what I have been able to accomplish so far. I am happy with what I have been able to do because I fully understand how capitalism works.
IMO the brotherhood mentality about looking at fellow non-union electricians as people who are 'taking food away' from their families is complete silliness (and borderline socialist). In my view, most of these fellow, non-union electricians are patriotic AMERICANS, and are entitled to anything that they can earn - even if they are willing to work without benefits or higher wages. Does that mean that they are bad people? NO! They are doing the same thing as you are - putting food on the table for themselves and their families. Why should they have to be part of a socialized labor cartel to earn a living? It is their own free will, and unions should respect that, not punish or ridicule those who choose not to participate in the 'club'.
Please do not take this as being disrespectful, as I have no intention of being so.
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