why is union better - Page 5 - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum

oldman · 04-05-2008, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frank

Non Union Benefits.

I make up my OWN mind.
I come and go as I please
I better appreciate the CUSTOMER and my EMPLOYER
MY work ethic is stronger.
My mistakes are MY own
My future is in MY control
I make no DEMANDS of anyone other than myself
My SOCIETAL CONTRIBUTION is substantially more and GIVEN FREELY.

Could go on for ever but Socialist thinkers would become apoplectic.

Sorry boys. Just couldn't help myself and it looks like my big foot is right in it now'

Frank

For Mechanical....

Apoplectic
Main Entry: ap·o·plec·tic
Pronunciation: "ap-&-'plek-tik
Function: adjective
1 : of, relating to, or causing stroke
2 : affected with, inclined to, or showing symptoms of stroke

brian john · 04-05-2008, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Of course, he pays less, so he makes more.

I hate to say this BUT DUH!

Look I went into business for a variety of reasons and while this may seem anti socialistic, I wanted to make more money.

amptech · 04-05-2008, 08:58 PM

That's one aspect I never could understand. Joe Schmoe wants to start a company. Joe makes a business plan with a marketable product. Joe borrows money and/or solicits investors to start-up manufacturing his product. Joe then markets his product managing on a tight budget until cash starts to flow. Joe hires employees and works to make the wage and benefits on par with area companies of similar size and revenue. As Joes company grows he sees the need to increase wages and bennies to retain a trained, quality workforce. As Joe's company succeeds and grows he is able to retire his start-up debt and begin to recoup what he sacrificed personally in the start-up struggle years. Joe has added dental and eye plans as the company has grown along with a profit sharing plan and a fully funded pension. Joe's average employee's salary hits $50k per year plus health, dental, eye, life insurance,profit sharing and pension, but he is paying himself $100k plus all of the bennies. Joe also is paying a dividend with a portion of the profits to his investors yearly. Joe's employees find out and think he is making too much more than them. Joe's employees decide to organize with a union to bargain for more of the profits for the labor force. How is this fair? I think the guy/gal who takes the financial risk and does the planning, marketing and lives lean through the infant stage of the companies development deserves to see a substantial return on the investment. Isn't that what America is supposed to be about?

oldman · 04-05-2008, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amptech

That's one aspect I never could understand. Joe Schmoe wants to start a company. Joe makes a business plan with a marketable product. Joe borrows money and/or solicits investors to start-up manufacturing his product. Joe then markets his product managing on a tight budget until cash starts to flow. Joe hires employees and works to make the wage and benefits on par with area companies of similar size and revenue. As Joes company grows he sees the need to increase wages and bennies to retain a trained, quality workforce. As Joe's company succeeds and grows he is able to retire his start-up debt and begin to recoup what he sacrificed personally in the start-up struggle years. Joe has added dental and eye plans as the company has grown along with a profit sharing plan and a fully funded pension. Joe's average employee's salary hits $50k per year plus health, dental, eye, life insurance,profit sharing and pension, but he is paying himself $100k plus all of the bennies. Joe also is paying a dividend with a portion of the profits to his investors yearly. Joe's employees find out and think he is making too much more than them. Joe's employees decide to organize with a union to bargain for more of the profits for the labor force. How is this fair? I think the guy/gal who takes the financial risk and does the planning, marketing and lives lean through the infant stage of the companies development deserves to see a substantial return on the investment. Isn't that what America is supposed to be about?

there are those who believe that joe really doesn't risk anything...and that if it's not him, it'll be someone else...and that it's the employees who do all the work, and therefore deserve all the rewards...

brian john · 04-05-2008, 10:56 PM

In my opinion this particular thread was the WORST thing to happen to this site, the whole union open shop issue is a WASTE OF time no one is ever going to change an other person opinion on this subject, might as well try to convert Muslims to Judaism.

I THINK many of the open shop members have tried to see the other side but some (NOT ALL) of the union member continue to exhibit what drives the two sides apart, a narrow minded approach to this issue along with a certain arrogance.

I now know why some forums keep this issue out and for the reasons noted above this is my last post on the forum.

If Nathan could remove me from the members list I would appreciate it.

oldman · 04-05-2008, 11:25 PM

brian, it's not that serious...it's a place to have this discussion without it turning to actual violence (although, I think randomkiller is working on a way to 'crack some heads' via the internet)...the dialogue is probably wasted on those typing...but i'm pretty sure that people viewing the thread are given food for thought...

Speedy Petey · 04-05-2008, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian john

I now know why some forums keep this issue out and for the reasons noted above this is my last post on the forum.

If Nathan could remove me from the members list I would appreciate it.

Less than a week with this new forum and we have LONG time upstanding members threatening to leave? I don't think so!

Brian, please don't leave in haste.
Let's let this go for now. I am closing this thread, NOT because I agree or disagree with anything said, nor because I am for censorship (to those thinking that don't waste your breath), but because it is to the point where it is exactly as Brian said. NO ONE is going to change their minds, and all this is just creating ill feelings.

I pushed for this added forum so we could keep the extremely negative "union" threads off the top boards. Now that there is a dedicated place for it I think it is getting out of hand, mainly because of several with some very strong and vocal feelings on the issues.

If I see this new area becoming any more of an area of division and animosity I will ask Nathan to pull the whole thing and ask him that we ban all such discussions. Hows that for taking my marbles and going home?!
You don't like it, take your over zealous pro/con union discussions elsewhere.