Originally Posted by LawnGuyLandSparky

Most people do. But how much of a "man" can you be IF ... one step outta line and you're out of a job? I suspect after your 2nd or 3rd firing you'd end up not 1/2 the man I think you'd like to think that you are. And the REASON I think that is because you tend to equate union membership as being anti-manly.

Well Bob, I'm man enough to take VERY good care of my family. And man enough to know very FEW workers who have no representation get a fair shake, and man enough to know how business owners treat men who try to act like men, and what happens to ONE individual worker who tries to act like an individual when their are 150 applications sitting on the boss's desk.

Some people are man enough to get smart enough to join in large groups, because you are not a man without POWER, and you have no POWER when you stand alone, as one individual, because as one you cannot financially impact anything, at least not like the power you can wield when EVERYONE is in it together as one group.



Assuming another shop would give you what you want.



Not at all. You cannot take care of yourself. You live in a society. You depend on others and others depend on you. There are handholders, but there's a difference between a handout and a handUP. There's strength in numbers, always has been and always will be.

Ordinary people, people like me and poeple like you I suspect - nobodys in the grand scheme of things are powerless to change things or to better their lot as individuals acting alone on their own behalf... but group together... and the powerful have no choice but to listen and to respect that.

You can define that as a "mob" if it makes you feel better. But remember mobs got women the right to vote. Got blacks their freedom. Allowed interracial marriage. And got this country out of the clutches of England.

Originally Posted by oldman

do you hold the reverse to be true? if they lose money because of a royal screwup on your part, should you be responsible for some of the loss?

Not unless you made a deal with him that allows that. Otherwise, you agreed to X# $$$ per hour.

Did you agree to pay based on job earnings, that he'd get a %?

Ford had a $1bil profit for the last quarter, 14 and a half more quarters like that will make up for the loss's of last year...

it has to be a give and take, not a one way street....this isn't aimed at you personally, just a general reference...

[b/] But "Ford" didn't lose - the stockholders who took that risk lost. And the stockholders who bought low and just sold high gained. Is it your contention that employees of a coropration should take all the heat but never the windfall porofits???[/b]

we just let a guy go because he felt i was responsible for supporting his family...wanted the paycheck, wanted the hours....but didn't feel necessary to produce anything in the hours he was on the clock...was happy to run jobs long because it meant another paycheck for him...

so, unfortunately, he is now looking for another job...and his family is not being taken care of...when had he just done his job, everyone would have won...

Originally Posted by macmikeman

There used to be Sugar Cane fields all over the Hawaiian Islands. Made the place look superb, no much more than superb, truly awesome. The workforce was all in unions. They were the highest paid ag workers in the country . Sugar prices were below what the companies could pay the men. For a long while the Congress propped up the mess with supports in exchange for the likely hood of votes.(it worked very well for the local senators). Then the price supports were yanked. The sugar growers offered reduced pay or shut down. The union workers refused to budge. the growers shut down. The land lies fallow for the most part now, and is erroding at a rapid rate into the sea. Thats what unions do.......

Originally Posted by LawnGuyLandSparky

Sure...

Not to mention weekends, paid holidays, workers comp, labor laws, pensions, benefits, minimun wage, OSHA, ... yea... causing sugar cane fields to become seawater is all that unions do....

Originally Posted by 480sparky

[center]

Originally Posted by EDM

First of all, that's not true. I worked for higher than rate many times, and all my "brothers" were mad about it.

Also, there is nothing GOOD about having a consistent wage. Why should the slug get paid the same thing as the producer? Hell, why should a good producer make the same thing as a great producer?

The only true answer you have to those questions is "to cover the slugs". Socialism is nice for you, huh?

Originally Posted by LawnGuyLandSparky

The slugs are only employed during the most dire shortages - so right now, they're non existant.

Originally Posted by 480sparky

Originally Posted by LawnGuyLandSparky

Nobody should have to work like an animal to survive.

Originally Posted by EDM

That's where you are wrong. I am BY FAR not the best electrician. I am a good electrician and I work hard all day, that alone is all that's needed to make the contractor money, which is the goal.

Try working smart sometime. I never "worked hard" a day in my life.

Slugs work when their number is called, which is any time of year.

Not for long. Slugs warm the bench. Contractors generally do not layoff the producers.

Did each of those professions earn what they get? You tell me. There is a difference between earning and receiving without merit.

Without a personnell file review - you cannot know if cop A and cop B or Teacher A and teacher B worked equally for equal pay. But over a lifetime or a career do you think there's any measurable difference?

My grandparents all worked hard and made good livings, they contributed more than they are getting back, that is because some of their money went to the people who didn't work as hard.

Grandparents couldn't have possibly put in as much as they're getting in today's dollars.

We don't need anything socialized.

The fact that you can travel on a public highway to get to work proves otherwise.

Do you really think it's beneficial to me to give my money away to the government in hopes to get some of it back when I retire?

It won't, it's not supposed to. You'll get a part of your grandkid's earnings, just like your grandparent's are getting yours.

I'll do my own investing, thanks.

Funny how the cries to invest Social Security in the stock market, to privitize it, FELL SILENT when the stock market bottomed out...

That is a complete load of crap. Unsubstantiated drivel.

Originally Posted by Peter D

"...if any should not work, then neither should he eat."

Originally Posted by oldman

hey, the world needs electricians too

Originally Posted by EDM

Vote with your feet, if enough people feel the way you do the employers won't have the manpower they need and they will change their rules. It's such a simple and effective concept, we do all the work while keeping the government out of it, how much better can you get?

Originally Posted by LawnGuyLandSparky

Originally Posted by EDM

What does the union represent, about 7% of the nations jobs?

Are you honestly trying to tell me that 93% of the people working in this country aren't getting a fair shake?

Do you actually believe what you type?

Originally Posted by 480sparky

Originally Posted by Peter D

No, but this thread is surely going to get a lot more boring.

Originally Posted by LawnGuyLandSparky

Kewl, you made that just for me?!

Originally Posted by LawnGuyLandSparky

Feel free to click elsewhere, as you've contributed nothing.