CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY, IT'S FREE!
Go Back   Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum > Electrical Trade Topics > PLCs, VFDs, Motors and Controls

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-04-2010, 05:55 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 103
Rewards Points: 75
Default VFD Parameters

Well, i don't know if this is possible but we had a Yaskawa F7 Drive that was sent in for repairs and the parameters were all saved and all and my boss tried to wire it back himself thinking since it was hisfirst one he ever worked on that he could doit. Come to be he wired it incorrectly and for some odd reason all parameters are gone!!!!. Now i have to reenter all parameters myself. Is this possible to do that? erase all parameters in the memory by wiring it up incorrectly?

PsiMan84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join Contractor Talk

Join the #1 Electrician Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

ElectricianTalk.com - Are you a Professional Electrical Contractor? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's the leading place for electricians to meet online. No homeowners asking DIY questions. Just fellow tradesmen who enjoy talking about their business, their trade, and anything else that comes up. No matter what your specialty is you'll find that ElectricianTalk.com is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally free!

Join ElectricianTalk.com - Click Here JOIN FOR FREE


Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ElectricianTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

Old 12-04-2010, 06:57 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Northern Kentucky
Posts: 814
Rewards Points: 530
Default

Depending on what was "wired wrong" the drive may now be junk. If the incoming power is connected to the drive output, the drive is usually gone. If external power is connected to the control terminals, the processor and control section is usually trashed.

varmit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 07:48 PM   #3
Wire Ninja
 
MDShunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Beautiful Cumberland Valley, in PA
Posts: 17,322
Rewards Points: 2,034
Default

If you say "the parameters are all gone", that leads me to believe that they weren't in there in the first place. Seldom are parameters "gone" anyhow, but simply back to defaults. I do agree, however, that wiring up a VFD incorrectly and having that VFD continue to function is a pretty hit and miss proposition.
__________________
One reason not to give DIY advice:
Catch a man a fish and you can sell it to him.
Teach a man to fish and you’ve ruined a good business opportunity.
MDShunk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 09:20 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SC.
Posts: 9,426
Rewards Points: 2,184
Default

When programming a drive, you tell the drive how you are going to connect it (physically) for control. Like, 2 wire, 3 wire, pump/fan ect.... You pick the wiring scheme for the application and you tell the control via parameter setting what you plan to do.
This sets the input terminals and how they act. The parameters dictate what each physical input and output terminal does. You will have a control wiring diagram for each available parameter set. This is located in the user manual.
For example, if the drive was set for two wire control and he wired it for 3 wire it would not work.

I would put my money that the repair shop has defaulted all parameters to factory settings. In this case you will have to re program your settings unless you have them saved.
All VFD's allow you to save a complete parameter group for each application. So you can run different processes with a simple parameter change. I believe the shop returned all parameters to factory settings for testing purposes. Just find the parameter group for your application and make that the default setting. You only see the control group selected and that is why it looks as if they are gone. Find the control group parameter setting and you will find all your original settings. If they defaulted everything you need to re program it over again.
John Valdes is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 10:28 PM   #5
Coffee drinking member
 
Wirenuting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: IL
Posts: 8,710
Rewards Points: 2,070
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PsiMan84
Well, i don't know if this is possible but we had a Yaskawa F7 Drive that was sent in for repairs and the parameters were all saved and all and my boss tried to wire it back himself thinking since it was hisfirst one he ever worked on that he could doit. Come to be he wired it incorrectly and for some odd reason all parameters are gone!!!!. Now i have to reenter all parameters myself. Is this possible to do that? erase all parameters in the memory by wiring it up incorrectly?
I believe the old Yaskawa's didn't use a Rom chip for parameter memory. There is no battery for the ram chip to hold the parameter so when the board mounted capacitors drained, the parameters were lost.
Best to write them down in the start up book & keep a copy for yourself. I like to use grease pencil inside the door for my notes. This way you can follow up behind me and make changes.
__________________
Teacher, my brain is full... Can I go home now?
Wirenuting is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 10:41 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 103
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Drive was repaired by yaskawa and it said on report that parameters were copied before repairs and rewritten back after repairs. I did the verify function and it would show error fault. When i would try to write parameters from keypad into drive it would give CPE error. I looked up software id and it matches keypad and drive. According to yaskawa they can't explain why parameters are gone. its from 2002 the drive European Spec. It was tried to power up after errors in wiring by the Boss and it would only put out a frequency of 0.87 and barely even move the motor. From my wiring schematics looks like he gave voltage to the outputs. Drive powers up fine with no faults so i'm left to guess if anything was shorted.
PsiMan84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 11:06 PM   #7
I void warranties
 
Jlarson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: AZ
Posts: 13,039
Rewards Points: 2,094
Default

Kinda sounds like the boss man whipped himself up some BBQ'D Yaskawa Drive.
__________________
The best never stop learning.

Jlarson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 11:16 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 103
Rewards Points: 75
Default

i'm waiting to see his reaction on monday. yesterday he just got in his car and left the shop when we showed him what he had done. we couldn't help but laugh cause he always wants to jump the gun and do things without thinking.
PsiMan84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 11:46 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SC.
Posts: 9,426
Rewards Points: 2,184
Default

Does it run without a motor connected in keypad mode? If it does, you need to program it correctly and then wire it for the parameter set you choose.
Sounds as if we have the blind leading the blind here. Don't you guys know anything about your equipment?

You might be laughing at your boss, but if you worked for me and could not figure this out, you would be getting in your car too. What are they paying you to do. Watch?

Last edited by John Valdes; 12-05-2010 at 11:48 AM.
John Valdes is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 11:58 AM   #10
Coffee drinking member
 
Wirenuting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: IL
Posts: 8,710
Rewards Points: 2,070
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PsiMan84
Drive was repaired by yaskawa and it said on report that parameters were copied before repairs and rewritten back after repairs. I did the verify function and it would show error fault. When i would try to write parameters from keypad into drive it would give CPE error. I looked up software id and it matches keypad and drive. According to yaskawa they can't explain why parameters are gone. its from 2002 the drive European Spec. It was tried to power up after errors in wiring by the Boss and it would only put out a frequency of 0.87 and barely even move the motor. From my wiring schematics looks like he gave voltage to the outputs. Drive powers up fine with no faults so i'm left to guess if anything was shorted.
Go in bypass and give it a try. Then use the drive in hand and slowly ramp up. If it don't work then you know what part to look at. If you didn't write your parameters down before then you have to redo it from scratch.
Having a boss make a mistake stinks. One of mine did some switching on a generator at the hospital I worked at. He burnt one of them up and dumped the building during surgery, Total outage. I came back from a day off and no one told me. Took me two weeks to find out a contractor back fed thru an ATS and smoked em. Boss didn't admit it to me until I closed his door and asked him what lie he wanted me to give for him.
I take ownership in my gear and take stupid mistakes personal.
__________________
Teacher, my brain is full... Can I go home now?
Wirenuting is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 12:02 PM   #11
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: California
Posts: 4
Rewards Points: 10
Default

You may have already tried this but make sure parameter 03-02 is set to 1 (enabled – Copying allowed). I believe the factory default is set for disabled, not allowing copying the parameters from the keypad to the drive and if I remember correctly will give you the CPE fault. Also I believe parameter A1-02 must match the control method in the parameters stored in the keypads memory. That parameter sets the drive to run in open/closed loop vector mode or V/f mode of operation plus a few other options.
Jeff H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 02:11 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 103
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Valdes View Post
Does it run without a motor connected in keypad mode? If it does, you need to program it correctly and then wire it for the parameter set you choose.
Sounds as if we have the blind leading the blind here. Don't you guys know anything about your equipment?

You might be laughing at your boss, but if you worked for me and could not figure this out, you would be getting in your car too. What are they paying you to do. Watch?
LOL! unfortunately we don't know that much about VFD's I know what i know only because i like to read on my own. He refuses to send me out for VFD training due to the fact that we might only work on one in 10 years. Ur right about the blind leading the blind in the VFD stuff. I know my equipment by heart except for when it comes to VFD's. So i might end up laughing at myself when done and cant figure it out either. I'm a field service tech for air compressors and this Compressor is in the shop. I only had like 30 minutes to even look at it on friday when i got back from being in the field. Thats why i said lets see what happens monday. I was actually planning on disconnecting motor from compressor and try running independently from the keypad when i got back.
PsiMan84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 02:15 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 103
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff H View Post
You may have already tried this but make sure parameter 03-02 is set to 1 (enabled – Copying allowed). I believe the factory default is set for disabled, not allowing copying the parameters from the keypad to the drive and if I remember correctly will give you the CPE fault. Also I believe parameter A1-02 must match the control method in the parameters stored in the keypads memory. That parameter sets the drive to run in open/closed loop vector mode or V/f mode of operation plus a few other options.
Yeah that was the first thing i checked when i got back to shop and it was set as enable. Going to try and run it in bypass and see on monday.
PsiMan84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 02:24 PM   #14
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: California
Posts: 4
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Did you check parameter A1-02? I looked at the manual and that is the third condition that has to be met to transfer the parameters from the keypad to the drive.
Jeff H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 02:33 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 103
Rewards Points: 75
Default

i'm going to look at these conditions on monday and will post back here my results.
PsiMan84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 03:37 PM   #16
Wire Ninja
 
MDShunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Beautiful Cumberland Valley, in PA
Posts: 17,322
Rewards Points: 2,034
Default

Looks like a lot of manufacturers are going to these removable keypads, like A-B's HIM modules. Makes setting up a new drive a snap.
__________________
One reason not to give DIY advice:
Catch a man a fish and you can sell it to him.
Teach a man to fish and you’ve ruined a good business opportunity.
MDShunk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2010, 12:10 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SC.
Posts: 9,426
Rewards Points: 2,184
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PsiMan84 View Post
LOL! unfortunately we don't know that much about VFD's I know what i know only because i like to read on my own. He refuses to send me out for VFD training due to the fact that we might only work on one in 10 years. Ur right about the blind leading the blind in the VFD stuff. I know my equipment by heart except for when it comes to VFD's. So i might end up laughing at myself when done and cant figure it out either. I'm a field service tech for air compressors and this Compressor is in the shop. I only had like 30 minutes to even look at it on friday when i got back from being in the field. Thats why i said lets see what happens monday. I was actually planning on disconnecting motor from compressor and try running independently from the keypad when i got back.
I am sorry I was so aggressive. Have you called the vendor that sold the VFD? Not the manufacturer, the representative? They are there for this type of problem and are your first step in resolving the issue.
I am going to ask you one more time. Does this drive operate without a motor connected. If this drive does not have a feedback device it should operate without the motor. Does it?
John Valdes is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2010, 01:12 PM   #18
Coffee drinking member
 
Wirenuting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: IL
Posts: 8,710
Rewards Points: 2,070
Default

Here's my next Yaskawa VFD install.
A dual motor unit. Installed it last year, never used & someone took it down when they added independent drives for pumps.
So boss says install it in another location.
Wait till he sees someone parted it out already. LoL
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image-1131480076.jpg (79.8 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg image-3623985128.jpg (112.0 KB, 5 views)

__________________
Teacher, my brain is full... Can I go home now?
Wirenuting is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
how to use the STRATER download parameters yuanye123080321 PLCs, VFDs, Motors and Controls 3 04-09-2009 05:09 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:54 PM.


Copyright © 2006-2014 Escalate Media LP. All Rights Reserved
Our Pro Sites Network
ContractorTalk.com | DrywallTalk.com | HVACSite.com | PaintTalk.com | PlumbingZone.com | RoofingTalk.com