Black4Truck

My guess would be the price of testing to get UL is not worth it because of demand for AL/AL wire nuts.

What would you do in a situation where the choice was to leave a 40 year old wire nut or replace it with a Ideal Purple made for AL/CU only??

partimer31

Idea purple 65 in my opinion will not be the solution to this problem.
And it's rumor to be fill with a flammable oxide-inhibitor.

So I would suggest, short of a re-do over with copper wire, anyone
that is making a aluminum to aluminum or aluminum to copper splice,
should install a AFCI circuit breaker to watch over the aluminum
circuit they have work on.

And even if the home owner original electrical panel, will not support
such a device, a new distribution panel should be installed that would
accommodate such a breaker.

And to go one further, may sure the house has working smoke and C.O.
detectors when you leave the job.

The earlier aluminum romex/NM cable, had an insulation temp. rating
that was lower, then what appear in the seventy's.

My thoughts and opinions are now open for discussion.

Bob Badger

I think that there is as much as a demand for AL/AL wirenuts as AL/CU and that they would simply charge accordingly.


Don't know, it would really depend on so many factors, most likely I would go with a listed connector or find a way that did not require me to create a violation.

__________________
Bob Badger
Electrical Construction and Maintenance
MA, RI, CT

InPhase277

Wasn't it just awhile back that someone posted a link to an Ideal "marrette" that was rated for Al/Al? It was CSA approved, which is probably good enough. I myself very rarely see aluminum wiring, and when I do, it is usually in a situation where I can rip it out anyway.

Black4Truck

I tried to order them through my supply house, but no can do

They are only available in Canada and I was told they needed to be UL approved to use here

Black4Truck

There are not many factors here to begin with.. sounds like you are doing a song n dance routine

I know it's a tough question and you are trying to be PC

220/221

I get paid to do it, therefore I are a professional

A professional can have his own opinion and not follow the panicked lemmings over the cliff.

When you have installed as much AL wire as I have and when you have reworked as much existing AL wire as I have, get back with me.




I also think that the risks of asbestos, mold and radon (from granite counter tops ) are highly over exxagerated.

partimer31

220/221 some your post friends are talking behind your back on another
form.

BadSplice

AWWWWWW SNAP.

Link!

mikheil

by that do you mean NEC and other safety codes??

you can certainly have your own opinion on anything, I myself have my own opinion on many NEC codes that I think need revising, but that's different from doing a careless job such as using incorrect nuts for a specific metal in the basis that the way you have done it for many years has not (yet) caused a problem or even a fire!

What makes you think that I haven't done as much or more Al as you have? Do you think that my number of posts in this forum directly relates to my years of experience????

When you go back and inspect all the Al splices that you have done in your career and check that not a single one has become loose, oxidized, carbonized or worse you get back to me..

There are reasons why the NEC safety codes are there. They are the results of many years of research, testing, product development, accidents, fires, deaths, etc.

Choosing to ignore the codes simply because you think they are wrong and you think you know better is extremely unprofessional at best.

itsunclebill

Alumiconns are listed for any combination of 2 or 3 wires, #10 or #12 solid AL and solid or stranded #18 to #10 Cu. They're cheaper than the purple wire nuts if you buy them in quantity, I think the last I got were around $2.50 ea or so - I generally get a least a hundred at a time. The company will let you know who sells locally or who will ship. If you're in an area where you have a lot of aluminum wire try to get a distributer to stock them - they seem to move pretty well once word gets out.

If you do this (electrical work) for a living you already have a torque screwdriver in the tool box - unless you have those calibrated wrists I've read about

The Alumiconns will generally push against the back of the box with careful positioning - makes the difference of getting a GFCI receptacle in or not sometimes. Probably the only thing I'd like to see is a 4 wire version.

220/221

Link us !!



I just get that feeling.

If you had the experience I have you would be less....I don't know....paranoid?


It's not about the metal and it's not about oxidation. Why would one connection out of a thousand/ten thousand fail if that were the case?

Al has issues. The wire nuts are not one of them.

I fully understand the reasons behind all laws. I also know when it's safe to jaywalk.


Be honest. Which codes do you ignore? Do you tape a #6 wire green? Maybe you use a self tapping SMS to ground an enclousre? Spill it.


Wait....are you that Mike....what's his name.....that used to post under a different name? The teacher/instructor guy who went to the police station and tried to turn himself in for speeding?

What was that clown's name?

Bob Badger

No, you do not, and neither do I, and neither does anyone else.

When we get to the point where we think we know more then more than 100 years of code writing we have become unprofessional.

__________________
Bob Badger
Electrical Construction and Maintenance
MA, RI, CT

mikheil

there is no point in continuing with this. do as you please.. create your own NEC code... after all you are a 'professional'... (at least that's what you call yourself).. best of luck to your customers!

my name is miguel, san jose, ca, (have you not noticed my broken accent yet?)

pleased to meet you.

your instructor turned himself in for speeding? now it all makes sense..

Bob Badger

Not to say I have never done that, but in this case there are a lot of factors.

How easy would it be to replace the AL?

How deep are the customers pockets?

What is the load I am feeding? 2000 watts of electric heat or 1 watt for a clock

What is the condition of the wiring etc.

Mostly it comes down to the fact I do not have to deal with this problem.

__________________
Bob Badger
Electrical Construction and Maintenance
MA, RI, CT

Bob Badger

Maybe I could have put that better, I am not holier than anyone and I don't want to sound like a prick. I just think that before I decide to ignore the code based on my 25 years of experience I should consider that 'the code' has a lot more experience and information than I do.

__________________
Bob Badger
Electrical Construction and Maintenance
MA, RI, CT

macmikeman

Time to bust in on this with some unsound reasoning. As said they probably didn't want to spend the money to have UL test al to al. Why is because they no longer make small alum romex, so why spend money to get listed for al to al? Add on's to existing aluminum wired houses will get new nm-b copper romex, so the listing tested copper mixed with aluminum conductors. As far as the old no-alox burning issue, I did some research once just for the bang of it all. No-alox has a flash point of about 600 deg F as I recall and the insulation on the nm-b has a flash point of over 900 deg F. so yes theoreticlly the no-alox will ignite before the wire will, but how often does either get to 600 F and a breaker doesn't trip someplace? (the degree figures are out of memory, I'm not going back to looking, you can check for yourself and tell me how wrong I am I don't mind, it happens all the time....)

InPhase277

UL listing or not, physics is physics. How can a wire nut be safe for copper to aluminum connections, but not be safe for aluminum to aluminum? That's just silly.

Jim Port

I always thought that you could use it for either AL/AL or Al/CU. Why would these be any different than a dual rated split bolt?

Bob Badger

I don't know, I don't care either.

I use products as intened ........... unless it's my own home.

__________________
Bob Badger
Electrical Construction and Maintenance
MA, RI, CT