Bob Badger

If your not using the right products it is not 'correct'.


Yes, very true, now it's 2009 and the rules have changed.

Bob Badger

You guys should really look into who writes the code.

Yes, there are engineers involved, but there are also regular electricians on the CMPs. As far as code proposals anyone of you can submit one. Many members over at MHs have submitted code proposals that have been accepted.

I can think at least four guys of the top of my head and none of them are engineers or lawyers.

macmikeman

Here is the reason for the use of listed wirenuts for al connections way out there on planet macmikeman. Liability. The citizens of planet macmikeman do not want to have future retirement plans disrupted by unnecessary court proceedings concerning that plain jane old wire nut that got put on to an alum connection that some attorney's sniffer dogs tracked down to me after some fire. Other types of violations may not get such careful attention paid to them if they cause a catastrophe, but in a dwelling that has alum wiring and has a fire, ambulance chasers come running in droves, trust me on this, my neighborhood was mostly wired with alum romex when it was created by Mr Henry Kaiser back in the seventies, and I have seen such things go down around here. I've seen two ec's get wiped out by court proceedings on this mistake. Another bad idea is to forgo proper wiring on swimming pools and later somebody gets electrocuted. That also tends to bring on swift attention from the boys in the suits.... If you want to express your freedom, stick to stapleing romex 9" away from single gang boxes. Bundle some wire runs in a house, that won't ever be a problem, rebel that way, but use listed wirenuts if you must splice to aluminum.

macmikeman

I know a few guys who think like you do on this Bob, and they seem to me to be pretty content in life. Its a good choice you make.

220/221

I'm glad we finally see eye to eye


Generally, lawyers are a plague and engineers should get out from behind their desks occaisionally.


That's your opinion based on what you beleve to be true.

My opinion is different based on what I beleve to be true.

It's as simple as that.


There was a discussion a couple days ago at MH where an inspector turned down mud rings for phone/data teminations. He believed they were not listed for such a purpose and insisted the contractor use the right products.

There is a discussion every few months about using a rigid coupling to make conduit to flex adapters. There will always be zealots who use listing as their only criteria. I am not one of them.

I would bet that I have seen first hand, as much or more existing AL work than anyone involved in the listing procedure. The failures I have seen that can be attributed specifically to a wirenut are zero. That means the successful splices I have seen are at 100%.

My point has always been, if the wirenuts are an issue, why don't they all fail or why don't a greater percentage of them fail? Why is one jbox different from all the rest?

Nobody has had an answer for that one.

I love the AL debate !

mikheil

you got it!! keep living in your bubble!

besides, who cares what you believe.. you are knowingly, intentionally and repeatedly breaking the code because in your bubble you think you are smarter than the NEC and you create your own rules and regulations.

you don't get the point. it doesn't matter if the 10000 incorrect Al splices that you have done in your life haven't failed yet. it will only take 1 failure that causes a fire, kills people for you to get a lawsuit for negligence and go to jail. and not because it is safe or not safe to do what you do, but simply because you didn't follow the code!!

they won't care if you had the best intentions while doing what you believe was right. you simply didn't comply with the current code. that's all they will care for.

InPhase277

Why did you quote me on it? I wasn't disagreeing.

Black4Truck

Bob is a very knowledgeable guy and will go out of his way to answer your question.

You could learn a lot from him if you just change your "attitude"

One thing he has never come off as is Mr. Perfect

BadSplice

Bob did NOT go out of his way to answer anything. He conveniently left out information and made a completely asinine post.

I don't need to change my attitude in any way, thank you. I did not ask for his information, nor did I ever insinuate that I wanted it.

And yes, he most certainly did come off as Mr. Perfect with his holier than thou attitude towards the other members here, I just called it like I saw it. And I am going to call the same thing about your post. Who are you to tell me that I should be listening to your all-knowing Master? Who are you to tell me that I have a bad attitude? Get off your high horse...

Black4Truck

You should change your name from BadSplice to BadAttitude

Think what you like, the loss is all yours

BadSplice

Ohhh jeeze, what a Drama Queen!

Black4Truck

I never argue with assholes over the Internet

BadSplice

Awwwww, poor baby. Don't worry, your posts show your age, maturity level, and intelligence quite well.

Anything else you want to add?

partimer31

THIS THREAD IS CLOSED. The author has all the facts he need.




Many thanks, to all who took the time, to Post replies.

mcclary's electrical

closed huh???

Bob Badger

I must have misunderstood you.

Bob Badger

Yeah, your right, you are much more mature then the rest of us, your posts make that very clear.

Bob Badger

Are you an electrician?

Yes or No?

Yes (I assume this to be a fact)

Is the area you work in subject to the NEC?

Yes or No?

Yes

Does the NEC require the correct use of listed products?

Yes or No?

Yes. (This is a fact found in 110.3(B)

Are you using listed products as required?

Yes or No?

No (This is a fact based on your own posts.)

So it is a fact you are not making your terminations correctly.

So if your opinion was that Micheal Jackson was still alive that would also be correct?

I know, and that inspector was wrong, there is nothing in the listing to back that up. There is plenty to back up the listing and listing requirements of terminations.

What you or I have seen means nothing, nothing at all

Handymen or DIYs always think they have a better way of doing things as well and many times they actually work ....... it does not make it right.


But we will never agree and we do not have to, your the boss where you are and I don;t work for you so we can live and let live.

mikheil

you wrapped it up pretty well.

we may just be talking to a handyman that has no clue of what the NEC code is. I feel sorry for his customers.

Bob Badger

Thanks.

He is not just a handyman and that is not what I was trying to say, as much as I disagree with 220/221 about this subject he is a sharp guy and does some nice work ........ he also has trucks for his guys that make me jealous.

He is right in the fact that we all choose to leave some NEC violations at some point (even you) for instance I do commonly re-identify conductors smaller than what the NEC allows we just have different ideas of where to draw the line.

For myself I would not be willing to push things with the AL terminations and it really surprises me that any one is willing to roll the dice with AL due to the high liability you would be under.