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Old 03-20-2017, 03:15 PM   #81
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NDC, you need at least one receptacle in the utility room, and it needs to be dedicated 15A (unless there is already one there). Rules 26-710(e)(iii) and 26-722(c).

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Old 03-20-2017, 03:29 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Awesome View Post
My two cents...


As far as the 3 switches and losing track of wires, thats what white tape and a sharpie are for. Do what is neatest and most convenient for a switchbank.
No concern with electrician losing track of wires. Concern is that when
there's more than 3 switches in one box, the homeowner will likely have
difficulty remembering what does what. When there's three or less, it's
usually easy to put them in a logical order that doesn't have to be
remembered.
YMMV
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Old 03-20-2017, 03:49 PM   #83
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Anyone who puts 2 separate 2-gang boxes in for switches is a f*cking ******ed handyman.
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Old 03-20-2017, 08:38 PM   #84
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I agree, I think a 4 gang is acceptable in some situations. Beyond that it's time to look and see if you can distribute them differently.
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:33 PM   #85
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I agree, I think a 4 gang is acceptable in some situations. Beyond that it's time to look and see if you can distribute them differently.
Random story:
At a school I worked on we had to special order a 10 gang box and cover plate. Different circuits from different panels to different parts of the building for the general lighting, all piped in and bonds in every pipe. Recessed into the wall so the wall had to be studded out all funky. Aaaaaall spec'd too.
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Old 03-21-2017, 01:11 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by B-Nabs View Post
NDC, you need at least one receptacle in the utility room, and it needs to be dedicated 15A (unless there is already one there). Rules 26-710(e)(iii) and 26-722(c).

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Yep already one in there

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Hey OP what program did you used to create that layout? I'm trying to do up a plan for my recently demo's basement.

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I use Adobe Ai. I had to teach myself how to use it. It's really useful for layouts.

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Can you legally have a bedroom without a egress window?
There is a window there, I just didn't put it in on the drawing
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Old 03-21-2017, 01:22 PM   #87
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I sent them the quote and didn't get a call back until today asking me why it was 5 grand higher the other guy. They also don't want to get permits taken out.
In the end it was a huge waste of my time.
I could use this type of work for my portfolio but I am not hungry for work yet, not enough to compete with trunk slammers anyway.
I know that they obviously got some cash price and I am not going to bother competing.
I hope ESA see's the bin on the driveway and knocks on the door.
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:29 PM   #88
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Lesson learned. You need to qualify your leads and dump the losers without hesitation. Ask a couple of questions about expectations and budget. Then sit back and listen. The customer will reveal himself in short order.
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:32 PM   #89
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Seriously, I think you need to look for some well established renovation contractors to work with.
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:45 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NDC View Post
I sent them the quote and didn't get a call back until today asking me why it was 5 grand higher the other guy. They also don't want to get permits taken out.
In the end it was a huge waste of my time.
I could use this type of work for my portfolio but I am not hungry for work yet, not enough to compete with trunk slammers anyway.
I know that they obviously got some cash price and I am not going to bother competing.
I hope ESA see's the bin on the driveway and knocks on the door.
"5 grand higher the other guy"

It was the 21 high hats

Anyways, do what you have to do get 5 more jobs to bid. Then use my list:

$85 Interior Outlet
$100 Interior GFCI Outlet
$110 Exterior Outlet
$65 Switch
$150 Light
$200 Fan
$125 High Hat
$150 High Hat LED
$400 Homerun w/ AFCI

Then change my list to suit yourself.

A takeoff for a basement remodel like this should take no more than 30 minutes if you have plans and no more than an hour if you have to draw up plans.

Bid it and move on. Spend those extras hours driving around to every bagel store and deli you can find and telling the owner/manager how much better the food would look with a nice new set of LED lights to replace the greasy brown lights they currently have falling out of the ceiling.
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Old 03-21-2017, 06:16 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by NDC View Post
I sent them the quote and didn't get a call back until today asking me why it was 5 grand higher the other guy. They also don't want to get permits taken out.
In the end it was a huge waste of my time.
I could use this type of work for my portfolio but I am not hungry for work yet, not enough to compete with trunk slammers anyway.
I know that they obviously got some cash price and I am not going to bother competing.
I hope ESA see's the bin on the driveway and knocks on the door.
Don't sweat that. I was at a job site the other day (for something unrelated) where I priced out the trim out of five houses that were wired and abandoned by another contractor. No devices in and a majority of the cables were coiled in the basement; all the cables had to be pulled back to the panel and tied in, all devices installed. Each house about 2000 sqft.

I was told by the site foreman that the owner got a couple of guys from Toronto to do it for less then half. That is less than the material costs. I don't see how they are doing it for less then half including driving from Toronto;it was five houses to so it is not like they were in and out in a day...

Guys like this perpetuate the race to the bottom...

Cheers

John
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:49 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99cents View Post
Lesson learned. You need to qualify your leads and dump the losers without hesitation. Ask a couple of questions about expectations and budget. Then sit back and listen. The customer will reveal himself in short order.
So what if they have no clue what the electrical budget should be? Should I base it on their entire basement budget?
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Old 03-21-2017, 11:47 PM   #93
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So what if they have no clue what the electrical budget should be? Should I base it on their entire basement budget?
Yes.

Their conception of what the whole project is going to cost is a 'tel.'

&&&

Keep in mind that your OWN labor expenditure for this project is likely too high.

Ie: You expected to build it off of a ladder.

That -- right there -- put you in orbit.

Yes, it takes 4X as much labor to work on a ladder as on the slab. It's not even close.

I'd be willing to bet you don't even have a Baker scaffold.

Until you learn such tricks, you'll be blown out on your bids, every time.

BTW, Red Chinese 'Baker style' scaffolds go for $200 in my town.

I'd probably use two for the OP job.

One for materials portage, another -- set low ( 36" ) as a working platform.

I'd be able to simply pull myself from point to point -- by reaching up to the overhead joists.

Materials portage is a HUGE labor factor. It means that I can stack up light fixtures at the door and then pull them around to the point of install, w/o having to traipse back and forth. The tools come along, too.
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Old 03-22-2017, 02:42 AM   #94
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Yes.

Their conception of what the whole project is going to cost is a 'tel.'

&&&

Keep in mind that your OWN labor expenditure for this project is likely too high.

Ie: You expected to build it off of a ladder.

That -- right there -- put you in orbit.

Yes, it takes 4X as much labor to work on a ladder as on the slab. It's not even close.

I'd be willing to bet you don't even have a Baker scaffold.

Until you learn such tricks, you'll be blown out on your bids, every time.

BTW, Red Chinese 'Baker style' scaffolds go for $200 in my town.

I'd probably use two for the OP job.

One for materials portage, another -- set low ( 36" ) as a working platform.

I'd be able to simply pull myself from point to point -- by reaching up to the overhead joists.

Materials portage is a HUGE labor factor. It means that I can stack up light fixtures at the door and then pull them around to the point of install, w/o having to traipse back and forth. The tools come along, too.
You sure have some oddball ideas. A scaffold in a basement job? How do I maneuver that through doorways and around all the junk left lying around?

Have you seen a box of Lotus Lights? You can carry it with one arm.
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Old 03-22-2017, 02:53 AM   #95
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So what if they have no clue what the electrical budget should be? Should I base it on their entire basement budget?
A cheap, scum sucking client will always reveal himself early in the conversation.
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Old 03-22-2017, 06:50 AM   #96
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You sure have some oddball ideas. A scaffold in a basement job? How do I maneuver that through doorways and around all the junk left lying around?

Have you seen a box of Lotus Lights? You can carry it with one arm.
I love working off my little roll around scaffold both as a scaffold and as a workbench.
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Old 03-22-2017, 07:09 AM   #97
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I love working off my little roll around scaffold both as a scaffold and as a workbench.
In a basement?
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Old 03-22-2017, 07:40 AM   #98
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In a basement?
Sure, why not?

What's the big deal, it has to go downstairs?

I've used it in many houses including my own, it's just handy.
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Old 03-22-2017, 07:51 AM   #99
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Sure, why not?

What's the big deal, it has to go downstairs?

I've used it in many houses including my own, it's just handy.
.....
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Old 03-22-2017, 07:53 AM   #100
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I love working off my little roll around scaffold both as a scaffold and as a workbench.
Quote:
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In a basement?
The little fold-up scaffold ...



For most people the two foot step will be perfect to work off of in a basement. There's room for a box of materials next to you, hang your tools off the rail so you're not weighted down like an animal, and you can work like a gentleman rather than humping everything around like an animal. I could do the 80 or 90 recessed lights in the main room in no time with this beauty
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