wirehigh

now I know this isn't something that should be done but, I'm curious.

Square D makes 60amp pullouts with a GFI in the disco. I though I saw or heard somewhere that in the 08 code, it's now legal to feed that outlet from one of the feed wires to the condenser. Does anyone know if this is true or not ? I've not been able to find it in the revisions for 08

user4818

If the condensor was fed from a 15 or 20 amp circuit, you could feed it from one of the phase conductors. You would have to run a neutral of course.

You can't put a general purpose receptacle on anything about a 20 amp circuit, although I don't have the book handy at the moment so I can't quote a code section.

wirehigh

yeah, I'm aware of that. That fact it's a service person only outlet would have you think it would be ok to tap one of the legs even though it's not fused to 20a. It is a GFI that would trip anyway if there were a problem.

I know it doesn't make sense that they would change a code to allow that outlet on a larger circuit.... I had heard that somewhere though I wanted to see if there was any truth to it. I'm still freshening up on 08 revisions

seo

Take a look at section 210.63 it states that the receptacle outlet shall not be connected to the load side of the equipment disconnecting means. (2008 NEC. ) Also the receptacle shall be 15 or 20 amperes.

wirehigh

nothing about the line side though ???

user4818

You can connect it to the line side.

wirehigh

ok, I'm talking about a 2 pole 30a circuit to the condenser. Feeding a outlet ( built into the disco ) from one side of that 2 pole circuit dedicated for the condenser is typically a no no. Could that have changed ? I saw that article that mentioned you can't connect to the load side. I would love to find something that states it can be connected to the line side. I would almost think it falls under " supervised access " and be ok. It's a outlet that will have very little if no use.

MDShunk

It would be slightly unusual to have a circuit as small as 15 or 20 amps run to a condensing unit to compliantly serve that convenience recepacle. Even if you did, I can think of at least one code section that would prevent you from using that circuit for the convenience receptacle. Sure, the receptacle's use and the condensing unit actually drawing power would likely be non coincidental, but the condensing unit is still fixed in place and drawing more than 50% of the circuit's ampacity. No exception for non-coincidental loads.

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wirehigh

ok, thanks for the replies. It does go against everything we know about having a over fused circuit. The changes are getting stranger and stranger so you never know.

IMO, a outlet in the disco, feed from one of the line side feeder with a 4" piece of wire isn't going to over load the circuit nor will it cause much damage if that 4" piece of wire burnt as it's in a enclosed/grounded box. Guess we can't make our own rules though.

redbeard43

Larger units these days that are on roof tops have built in GFCIs. They are using a xfmr with a fuse from the line side.

The Square D® Combination AC Disconnect and GFI Receptacle unit will
help you save time and material when wiring to NEC 210.63 requirements. This all-in-one unit provides the airconditioning disconnect and GFI receptacle in one NEMA 3R enclosure, eliminating the need for a separate box and weatherproof receptacle cover.


20A GFI Receptacle mounted to trim for easy wiring (requires separate 120V circuit)
Non-fused 60A pullout Side-opening door offers maximum accessibility and when shut, provides a weatherproof cover for the receptacle per the requirements of NEC 406.8 Convenient combination knockout provisions (1/2", 3/4", 1") on side, back and bottom enclosure walls for maximum wiring flexibility Mounting slot for pre-hanging during installation Receptacle factory-wired to ground Swing down cover padlock provision Pull-out head storage in OFF position Also available with 20A non-GFI receptacle

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wirehigh

that's exactly what I'm talking about. It refers to article 210.63 and only mentions it ( can't ) be connected to the load side. I wonder if this means if ( can ) be connected to the line side of the disco ? Maybe the inline fuse is the trick ??

redbeard43

The Square D® Combination AC Disconnect and GFI Receptacle unit will
help you save time and material when wiring to NEC 210.63 requirements. This all-in-one unit provides the airconditioning disconnect and GFI receptacle in one NEMA 3R enclosure, eliminating the need for a separate box and weatherproof receptacle cover.


20A GFI Receptacle mounted to trim for easy wiring (requires separate 120V circuit)

Non-fused 60A pullout
Side-opening door offers maximum accessibility and when shut, provides a weatherproof cover for the receptacle per the requirements of NEC 406.8 Convenient combination knockout provisions (1/2", 3/4", 1") on side, back and bottom enclosure walls for maximum wiring flexibility
Mounting slot for pre-hanging during installation
Receptacle factory-wired to ground Swing down cover padlock provision Pull-out head storage in OFF position
Also available with 20A non-GFI receptacle[/quote]

__________________
You have the ring, and I see that your schwarz is as big as mine.May the schwartz be with you!

redbeard43

compare the cost of this unit to the cost of a basic ac breaker disconnect or pull out to a wp box, gfci and in use cover, see what the difference is. Labor wise, easier to mount 1 box than 2 and the in use is $$..box,gfi-cover maybe 30 $$ my guess plus you still have to run a wire for each..your call.

__________________
You have the ring, and I see that your schwarz is as big as mine.May the schwartz be with you!

te12co2w

Those square d units are great for ac, but for a hot tub where you have to use the bigger wire, they are a bit small for me. Hard to get # 6's in there alone, never mind the #12's also.