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Old 03-24-2017, 08:18 AM   #1
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Default Cutler Hammer BR burned

This always seems to happen on cutler hammer BR panels usually when a heat pump and air handler breaker on in the top slots. Is there something wrong with the BR breakers that won't let them trip?
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Old 03-24-2017, 08:27 AM   #2
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It isn't unique to BR panels I assure you.

I see this where a heavy load is connected to a breaker that shares bus tabs with another larger breaker. The heat build up is probably the culprit. A breaker larger than 40 amps should probably be alone on the tabs, no breaker across from it. This would help keep it cool.
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Old 03-24-2017, 12:07 PM   #3
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Improper torque is most likely the causation of that . And,,,,,,,, usually the printed proper torque the engineer's decide on is the improper level. Usually dangerously loose if following the printed specs...
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Old 04-06-2017, 12:16 AM   #4
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Personally, I think it's a design flaw. Have you ever seen a QO burn like that? I haven't.
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Old 04-06-2017, 06:57 AM   #5
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Personally, I think it's a design flaw. Have you ever seen a QO burn like that? I haven't.
I've seen QOs burn but, it's rare.
I has a bit of a cronic problem like that.
As an experiment, I installed a 70 amp breaker. It looks like it shares the same frame and guts as a 100 amp. I haven't had that burning problem on that site again.
Btw, it was a tankless water heater installation.
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Old 04-06-2017, 07:46 AM   #6
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It isn't unique to BR panels I assure you.

I see this where a heavy load is connected to a breaker that shares bus tabs with another larger breaker. The heat build up is probably the culprit. A breaker larger than 40 amps should probably be alone on the tabs, no breaker across from it. This would help keep it cool.
I can see putting an air handler breaker and heat pump breaker above / below each other but never on the same tabs.

To me that is just poor workmanship of an inexperienced installer..
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Old 04-06-2017, 08:29 AM   #7
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Improper torque is most likely the causation of that . And,,,,,,,, usually the printed proper torque the engineer's decide on is the improper level. Usually dangerously loose if following the printed specs...
Improper torque had nothing to do with that. If anything it was a faulty breaker.
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Old 04-06-2017, 08:31 AM   #8
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Personally, I think it's a design flaw. Have you ever seen a QO burn like that? I haven't.
I have seen more QO's burnt than any other brand by far. That is usually because they pop off the buss easier than I can pop open a beer.
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Old 04-06-2017, 09:34 AM   #9
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I haven't seen any QO burnouts but I did have a run of duds that didn't work at all.
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Old 04-06-2017, 08:55 PM   #10
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It's an aluminum bussed panel, I see this regularly in aluminum bussed panels....just had a call two weekends ago for the same thing but it was a dryer breaker in an aluminum bussed Siemens panel.

Twins and quads to move the breakers off the bad stab is the usual fix. If it's really bad or they are out of space...panel change!
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Old 04-06-2017, 09:03 PM   #11
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Improper torque had nothing to do with that. If anything it was a faulty breaker.
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Old 04-07-2017, 09:02 PM   #12
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Another BR typical. Get a panel with a copper bus. QO is one of the best. I think BR offers one too.
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Old 04-07-2017, 09:12 PM   #13
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It's an aluminum bussed panel, I see this regularly in aluminum bussed panels....just had a call two weekends ago for the same thing but it was a dryer breaker in an aluminum bussed Siemens panel.

Twins and quads to move the breakers off the bad stab is the usual fix. If it's really bad or they are out of space...panel change!
Some guys don't think copper buss panels are better.
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Old 04-07-2017, 10:54 PM   #14
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Some guys don't think copper buss panels are better.
Hackwork disagrees with me everytime I say the same thing....

I've seen probably no less than 15 aluminum bussed panels with burned stabs, but only one copper bussed panel so far.

Is it because the ratio of aluminum to copper bussed panels in this area is 15-1? Or are aluminum bussed panels just turds?? I'm leaning towards they are turds....
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Old 04-07-2017, 10:58 PM   #15
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Hackwork disagrees with me everytime I say the same thing....

I've seen probably no less than 15 aluminum bussed panels with burned stabs, but only one copper bussed panel so far.

Is it because the ratio of aluminum to copper bussed panels in this area is 15-1? Or are aluminum bussed panels just turds?? I'm leaning towards they are turds....
I've NEVER seen a residential panel that was copper.

15-1 would seem LOW.
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Old 04-07-2017, 10:59 PM   #16
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Hackwork disagrees with me everytime I say the same thing....

I've seen probably no less than 15 aluminum bussed panels with burned stabs, but only one copper bussed panel so far.

Is it because the ratio of aluminum to copper bussed panels in this area is 15-1? Or are aluminum bussed panels just turds?? I'm leaning towards they are turds....
I lean towards the latter myself. I like copper over aluminum for any purpose.
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Old 04-08-2017, 12:54 AM   #17
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I've NEVER seen a residential panel that was copper.

15-1 would seem LOW.
So you have never seen a QO, Siemens or even a FPE? Pushmatics were copper. Pretty sure Almost every single resi panel around here is.
Did your internet search not quite work that well?
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Old 04-08-2017, 02:58 AM   #18
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I've NEVER seen a residential panel that was copper.

15-1 would seem LOW.
I used to see them all the time around here , but just recently I
had a customer specifically request I do not use aluminum buss
panel , so it then became obvious to me that the single phase
residential breaker panels (with copper busses) are getting
more challenging to find.

I chose square D QO because it proclaimed "copper buss"...
When I got to the job and opened up the box , removed the
door ...it looks like an aluminum buss...it's not copper colored...
it says copper but it appears to be aluminum. What the heck?
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Old 04-08-2017, 03:30 AM   #19
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I used to see them all the time around here , but just recently I
had a customer specifically request I do not use aluminum buss
panel , so it then became obvious to me that the single phase
residential breaker panels (with copper busses) are getting
more challenging to find.

I chose square D QO because it proclaimed "copper buss"...
When I got to the job and opened up the box , removed the
door ...it looks like an aluminum buss...it's not copper colored...
it says copper but it appears to be aluminum. What the heck?

I made the same mistake before. The buss is tinned copper. (coating). Scratch the bus with a sharp edge and the copper is down there below the shiny parts.... Most all the so called ''aluminum buss bars'' you hear about in this thread are really copper busbars tinned.
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Old 04-08-2017, 03:33 AM   #20
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Siemens PL series is copper buss
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