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Old 12-25-2016, 08:41 PM   #1
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Default Honda EU generators

These are pretty popular and a lot of people want to use them. I have one hooked up to my townhome... they are efficient , ultra quiet , and produce very clean power that even my home theater monster power centers operate.. Problem is they are 120volts and use a 30a 120v gen outlet... in my case I used a jumper on a DP breaker to light up both bus bars on my panel , but I wouldn't do that for someone else as I don't think it's legal.. but in my community it's really nice to be running something so quiet and I can even hook up 2 in parallel... is there another way to get around this and do it legal for customers , alot of people want these for their home..... I suppose you can just arrange circuit breakers on 1 bus.

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Old 12-25-2016, 11:20 PM   #2
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Yes there is a way. Heck there are 4 or 5 ways to do this legally. This is something most EC's should know.
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Old 12-25-2016, 11:43 PM   #3
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Default Honda EU generators

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Originally Posted by sbrn33 View Post
Yes there is a way. Heck there are 4 or 5 ways to do this legally. This is something most EC's should know.


I for sure don't know everything , and maybe I should know this , but I've never had to get into it. That's why I'm learning now.. I've spent 90% of my career working on massive projects. My last employer has 600 employees. I have experience in other types of electrical projects... that's the problem with spending your career in $100+++ million dollar commercial projects. Great experience, but the way I can explain it is in a sense you never see the full circuit but you work on bits and pieces of it. The last generator I worked on was the size of 5 large tractor trailers. Out of 13 yrs in the trade I was employed doing residential my first 6 months as a first year rookie. I've learned a hell of a lot these last few months being full time on my own

Here's some of the pipe work I did with an apprentice this past summer on the generator I speak of

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Old 12-26-2016, 12:19 AM   #4
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I thought they made 240/120 when paired. If I had one, I would put in a sub panel for the dedicated 120 loads I wanted to run.
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Old 12-26-2016, 12:48 AM   #5
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Quote:
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I thought they made 240/120 when paired. If I had one, I would put in a sub panel for the dedicated 120 loads I wanted to run.
Honda does not officially support 240V pairing, but there are third party solutions that will allow that.
The key is to link the two units through a component (small transformer or amp) that provides a 180 degree phase shift in the linking cable.

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Old 12-26-2016, 04:21 AM   #6
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"I don't think it's legal."
Are you even a contractor ?

Here that would constitute a breach of the electrical code and the POCO regs
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Old 12-26-2016, 09:01 AM   #7
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sbrn33 please share your methods


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Old 12-26-2016, 09:50 AM   #8
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The reason for the 30a 120v output is because the Honda EUs have a low voltage alternator which is then converted to 120v with an inverter, it does not "generate" a 120/240 output on it's winding.
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Old 12-26-2016, 09:58 AM   #9
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Default Honda EU generators

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Originally Posted by LawnGuyLandSparky View Post
The reason for the 30a 120v output is because the Honda EUs have a low voltage alternator which is then converted to 120v with an inverter, it does not "generate" a 120/240 output on it's winding.


Seems odd they would design it this way... unless it wasnt designed with resi backup power in mind.. what a great generator though! I use it for my townhome and take it on jobs with me ... im already shopping for the second one so I can hook up 2 to my home


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Old 12-26-2016, 10:04 AM   #10
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I can't answer your question @WronGun. Connecting things as you've done
by jumpering a DP breaker will work for the 120V loads. Any MWBC's could
see current adding on the neutral. So like you, I'd do this on my own home
only.
Question; what's the jumper between the two gens in the picture?
P&L

edit: Nevermind the question. Just read answer on honda site.
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Old 12-26-2016, 10:14 AM   #11
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I'll answer it anyways ... they are designed to be hooked up to each other in parallel and Honda makes the cord to do so this. This gives you 4000 watts of ultra clean power unlike most other gens... being slightly louder than an AC compressor which is the biggest positive... I recently sold a brand new Briggs 8750 worked great but the power generated from many generators alike wouldn't turn on my 2 home theaters ... the power was not clean enough for the monster power centers I have hooked up.


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Old 12-26-2016, 10:18 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inetdog View Post
Honda does not officially support 240V pairing, but there are third party solutions that will allow that.
The key is to link the two units through a component (small transformer or amp) that provides a 180 degree phase shift in the linking cable.

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So the transformer would be a step-up 1:2 with secondary center tap?
The amp would be a type of VFD?
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Old 12-26-2016, 10:52 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlugsAndLights View Post
So the transformer would be a step-up 1:2 with secondary center tap?
The amp would be a type of VFD?
P&L
The transformer would be a simple 1:1 isolation transformer that would not need to handle much power.
The amp would be a simple unity gain inverting amplifier.
Without knowing more about how the synchronization works, I would not recommend even trying the amp approach. The transformer would be simple and rugged.
The other, totally different, approach would be to simply parallel the two units and then feed that output to a 120:240 autotransformer such as what you describe.

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Old 12-26-2016, 11:56 AM   #14
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Or go with the Honda EU7000. 120/140 receptacle and still put in a sub panel with a manual transfer switch/interlock.
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Old 12-26-2016, 12:28 PM   #15
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I have done this countless times. Most people want to use a small 120V inverter generator (Honda and many other brands make them) for nighttime use (a couple TV's nightlight, fridge, sump pump, bathroom light) while still being able to connect a full size 120/240V generator for when they want to power more items.

I feel the method that I use is the best, safest, and most foolproof. What I do is I install a normal portable generator connection. I backfeed a 30A 2-pole breaker and lock it out with the proper interlock. I run 10-3 romex to a 30A inlet, this is a 120/240V inlet. This will give them the ability to connect a normal generator up to 7,500 watts.

Now for the 120V generator I make up a cord for it. 12-3 SJ cord (which is 3 conductor, white, black, and green). I install a typical 3 prong 120V plug on one end to plug into the generator. On the other end I install a typical L14-30 120/240 30A female twistlock cord end. This connects to the inlet. Inside of that twistlock cord end is where I run a jumper from 1 hot to the other.

This makes for a safe installation. You don't have to worry about a hot-to-hot short like you may have to when jumping a breaker. This cord can only be used with a 120V generator. And those 120V generators provide so little power that you don't have to worry about overloading the neutral on a MWBC.
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