NC may do away with Arc Faults - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum

**Dennis Alwon** · 06-08-2009, 06:34 AM

Here is an article from the News and Observer on the arc fault story.
I find the story to be totally inaccurate where they talk about arc faults only adding $60-100 to the price of a new home. Where did they get that data from?

Of course, I believe it is the changes in the 2008 that they are talking about.

william1978 · 06-08-2009, 06:50 AM

The BDC is a joke.

**Dennis Alwon** · 06-08-2009, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by william1978

The BDC is a joke.

Do I detect a bit of bitterness.

william1978 · 06-08-2009, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon

Do I detect a bit of bitterness.

Your correct. I explain later Got to take my daughter to school.

william1978 · 06-08-2009, 07:44 AM

The BDC is made of mostly homebuilders that don't have a clue about electrical safety they think having these AFCI breakers will keep someone from being able to purchase a home which is BS. Just like Kim Reitterer said if they can afford all those granite counter tops what is a coulple bucks going to hurt them if that will not let them qualify for the loan they shouldn't be buying that house. I have heard that Kim Reitterer is a very sharp lady and knows her stuff.

**Dennis Alwon** · 06-08-2009, 03:46 PM

Here is a bit of info passed on to me about arc faults.

Quote:

Dennis check out this information from the NFPA website. Just click on the links.

http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files//PD...sfactsheet.pdf

http://www.nfpa.org/itemDetail.asp?c...fire%20problem

399,000 Dwelling Fires per year and only 6% of these are electrical related. That means that only 23,940 of the 399,000 are electrical rated.
Only 4% of fires happen in dens, living room, family room, and dinning rooms. That means that there are only 958 electrical fires in these rooms per year(23,940 X 4% = 958). Only 8% of fires happen in bedrooms (23,940 X 8% = 1915) per year. These are fact from NFPA not mine. I only did the math.

acmax · 06-08-2009, 06:46 PM

?????[quote=Dennis Alwon;88262]Here is an article from the News and Observer on the arc fault story.
I find the story to be totally inaccurate where they talk about arc faults only adding $60-100 to the price of a new home. Where did they get that data from?

Of course, I believe it is the changes in the 2008 that they are talking about.[/quote

Since moving to NC there has been a lot of hoopla over the arc fault issue.
Knowing a few inspectors and seeing that some are all over it, and others don't give it any mind.I just follow the NEC, Definitely depends on what county your in.

acmax · 06-08-2009, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon

Here is an article from the News and Observer on the arc fault story.
I find the story to be totally inaccurate where they talk about arc faults only adding $60-100 to the price of a new home. Where did they get that data from?

Of course, I believe it is the changes in the 2008 that they are talking about.

Depends what county your in.In the western part of the state the inspectors ignore what ever they feel like.

**Dennis Alwon** · 06-08-2009, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acmax

Depends what county your in.In the western part of the state the inspectors ignore what ever they feel like.

Because an inspector in the western part of the state chooses to ignore a violation will not resolve you of the liability if something should happen. You still have to install to code or you are taking a risk.

william1978 · 06-08-2009, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acmax

Depends what county your in.In the western part of the state the inspectors ignore what ever they feel like.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon

Because an inspector in the western part of the state chooses to ignore a violation will not resolve you of the liability if something should happen. You still have to install to code or you are taking a risk.

That Inspector needs to be reported to the state. Just because he chooses to ignore the the code because he might not agree with the code. He swore in that he would enforce the code to best of his ability, and who doesn't know about AFCI requirements.

Jeff000 · 06-08-2009, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon

Here is a bit of info passed on to me about arc faults.

399,000 Dwelling Fires per year and only 6% of these are electrical related. That means that only 23,940 of the 399,000 are electrical rated.
Only 4% of fires happen in dens, living room, family room, and dinning rooms. That means that there are only 958 electrical fires in these rooms per year(23,940 X 4% = 958). Only 8% of fires happen in bedrooms (23,940 X 8% = 1915) per year. These are fact from NFPA not mine. I only did the math.

In 2006, fire departments responded to 412,500 home fires in the United States, which claimed the lives of 2,580 people (not including firefighters) and injured another 12,925, not including firefighters.

In my searched Electrical was the cause in 14-23% of house fires.

acmax · 06-08-2009, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by william1978

That Inspector needs to be reported to the state. Just because he chooses to ignore the the code because he might not agree with the code. He swore in that he would enforce the code to best of his ability, and who doesn't know about AFCI requirements.

Cherokee County , Murphy. Wife's friend new home last summer.No afci in panel. House had CO

go figure.

william1978 · 06-08-2009, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acmax

Cherokee County , Murphy. Wife's friend new home last summer.No afci in panel. House had CO

go figure.

That is a complete shame.

hiloelectric · 06-12-2009, 03:41 PM

I love how people blame the manufactures and say its them pushing the issue. I remember the 99' NEC code stating Arc Faults will be required by 2002. At that time there was no such thing and all manufacturers had three years to create one.

Builders just look at the cost of Arc faults as cutting into their 400% profit margins.

Although I do agree that they are still very much unreliable. I think they could have perfected the arc fault before increasing its demand.

MarkyMark · 06-12-2009, 03:51 PM

Anyone know how the meeting turned out on this? I looked on the local news sites and TBJ, but didn't see anything.

william1978 · 06-12-2009, 05:28 PM

I was curious of the samething.

JohnJ0906 · 06-12-2009, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hiloelectric

Although I do agree that they are still very much unreliable. I think they could have perfected the arc fault before increasing its demand.

I agree.

**Dennis Alwon** · 06-12-2009, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

Anyone know how the meeting turned out on this? I looked on the local news sites and TBJ, but didn't see anything.

The arc fault decision was put off until September but the se cable will continue to be 60C.

There was a fight to get se cable to be rated 75C but the building code council voted against it. I think the arc faults won't be denied in Sept. either. I bet they are hoping the economy picks up by then to make the decision.

As it stands now the arc faults are still in NC code as written in the 2008 NEC

william1978 · 06-12-2009, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon

As it stands now the arc faults are still in NC code as written in the 2008 NEC

I bet there are a bunch of people bitch'n about this.

manchestersparky · 06-13-2009, 06:59 AM

People hated GFCI's back in the 70's also. Now they can't live without them.

The approach that people won't be able to afford the additional cost is just a scare tactic. They are playing on the economy and the fears of not being able to get the housing market moving.
How much additional cost will there be ? $300 ? If $300 is pushing the house out of price range ,you can't afford the dam thing anyway!

Nobody bitchin about tamper resistant receptacles why's that ?

Here's another approach - A house is wired and inspected. The Jurisdiction has done away with Arc Fault Breakers so there are none in this house.
The house has an electrical fire and burns. The homeowner is told about Arc Faults by their insurance company. They are told had they had them the fire would have not been started. Too Bad the jurisdiction took them out of the national code.- Here comes the lawyer filing papers to sue anyone and everyone involved in removing a nationally recognized life safety device from the electrical code for that area.
Sound crazy ? NO
remember someone sued McDonalds because the HOT coffee they bought was HOT and they burned THEMSELVES with it. They WON !!!!