seo

This has been an interesting post to read.

JohnJ0906

You explained nothing.

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John from Baltimore
"One day at a Time"
All responses based on the '08 NEC
It's not my fault, it's not my problem, I'm not your solution.

Celtic

You got a "love letter" too?

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Celtic

Don was given the floor to turn us into believers...on more than one occasion...and the offer remains.

....maybe he will have the gumption to "know when to fold 'em"....maybe not

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brian john

Don:

I have followed this post from the get go and followed these "TYPES" of products for years and while I am no engineer I have been involved with many engineers, from utilities, independent EE firms and energy power consultants and all agree on one thing.

These are smoke and mirrors CRAP, snake oil and at some point the when someone starts a class action lawsuit, firms that sell this junk will be in the courts and possibly those that install this stuff will follow, unless they can provide hard evidence of a REAL benefit.

But I am willing to listen to some intelligent factual data that supports your side in this ongoing post, WHICH NO ONE HAS EVER SUBMITTED.

I do not care about name calling, or the grammar either of us use in achieving the answer.

How does your product work?
Do you have evidence, REAL evidence of this product working?

Aditionally this product has been beat to death on other forums

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthrea...t=power+factor

The hard time you are recieving may be related to the fact that in ALL PROFESSIONAL forums, those that sell this product have been vilified and the reason is everyone promoting this product (or one similar to this) has not provided and engineering data to back the product up.

The electrical field has one thing going for this is not magical or mystical everything can be mathmatically worked out. For this product it is not there. Typical power factor correction devices that do save industrial firms money have stepped capacitors and measure KVA/KW and correct for low power factor accordingly and this is in areas where there is a pf penalty. This device has a fixed capicitor and cannot adjust according to load which means it might be benificial or could be determental to billing IF THERE WAS A PENALTY FOR low pf IN THE RESIDENTIAL MARKET, which to my knowledge there is not in any of the 50 states.

In my opinion if you are selling this device and have no hard, fast, REAL evidence the product works (which it does not unless you can prove different), then you are lowering your self in our chosen profession.

BryanMD

another opinion on it:

Attached Images

plugwhores.jpg (22.9 KB, 130 views)

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March 2010: On the road with my RV. California is first primary destination then it is off to Eastern OR, Northern ID and Western MT for drycamping and fly fishing until Labor Day.

JohnJ0906

I got one as well.

__________________
John from Baltimore
"One day at a Time"
All responses based on the '08 NEC
It's not my fault, it's not my problem, I'm not your solution.

JohnJ0906

I'm still waiting, Don.

__________________
John from Baltimore
"One day at a Time"
All responses based on the '08 NEC
It's not my fault, it's not my problem, I'm not your solution.

Celtic

Well....Valentine's Day is just around the corner ~ LMAO

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JohnJ0906

I don't know what he is selling, but I'm not buying.

__________________
John from Baltimore
"One day at a Time"
All responses based on the '08 NEC
It's not my fault, it's not my problem, I'm not your solution.

brian john

The facts are, this product like many others like it are a ripoff and those that sell and install this product should be brought up on fruard charges.

Unless they can post something to prove me wrong?

I have read NO POSITIVE reviews of this product on numerous forums and as stated from engineers in the field.

brian john

I was hoping Don would post something of interest to bolster his side of this discussion either he backed off or is gathering a wealth of material to hit us with later...

Celtic

He might be able to read the websites and gather the info needed...but if it became a Q & A series

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JohnJ0906

Well, I decided to, as he said, educate myself.

There is next to no REAL information on the Power Saver site. I certainly won't buy one of these to test myself.

Here are the specs. It looks to me that there is very little if any to be said about the actual power factor correction.

I am certainly willing to look at something with an open mind, but what I see on their web site won't change my mind.

If Don would like to post some facts, some actual measurements before and after installation, I would like to see them. Measurements with the Power Saver ONLY - no other changes in the house.

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John from Baltimore
"One day at a Time"
All responses based on the '08 NEC
It's not my fault, it's not my problem, I'm not your solution.

bauler

I think we have been had by a troll. Hope he got off on it. I do hear this kind of non-sense from non-electricians all the time. Soon as you mention you are a non believer in their fantasies, backed up with facts, they get all huffy. Usually goes: Well I know this gizmo works I've seen it my self or I know someone that knows this works, ect. A wise man told me once, You can't argue with ignorance.

KayJay

I think I’ve figured out how the Power Saver works. You purchase it direct from the manufacturer for $700.00 and then I install it in less than an hour for $350.00. That’s how it works.

ceb58

Don, go ahead and man up and admit it you are a hack and a sleazy salesman nothing more. You have jumped off in a place where many of the responders to your post have forgotten more about this trade than you will ever know.
Face the facts you have no idea what you are doing except screwing people. You cannot answer the fact that residential services have no PF or peak demand factors. You state you recommend replacing HWH with gas on demand heaters. Well duh, if I remove my water heater my power bill will be less. The small savings that might be had with this product. How long would it take to recoup the investment if ever?

Celtic

IF, he was a company sponsored troll ~ he just buried the company.

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TOOL_5150

When it comes to power quality and Brian says its snake oil... then it is just that.

This top was quite an interesting read though!

~Matt

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I would rather beg for forgiveness then beg for permission.

TOOL_5150

By the way.. BryanMD - That picture made me laugh pretty good.

~Matt

__________________
I would rather beg for forgiveness then beg for permission.