Power Saver - Page 7 - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum

bauler · 03-15-2009, 01:26 PM

I think you have it the other way around. Where you are claiming the earth is flat and everyone knows its round. Since you sell them, can you show any evidence that they work?
If it actually worked I could sell a lot of them. I don't mean customer's testimonials. I mean some hard facts. Like reading a meter with and without it on, while running a motor load. Showing a electric bill doesn't work since there would be too many variables. You need to run a fixed load for a given time and compare. I don't believe you can do it. If you are a licensed contractor, you'll probably get lose your license over it, and get prosecuted for fraud. Lets see some proof.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartknowsbest

Its strange, we have been selling PS1200s, PS32 and 3400's for 18 months now and have 95% happy customers, especially the commercial units. Everyone admits capacitors work, they have been used for Power Factor correction for over 50 years in industrial settings yet some guys think the earth is flat - "its a scam!".
If a customer has a variety of motor load - ie lots of pumps, compressors and motors at least one of them is cycling on and off more than not and so the in-rush current is reduced and here in CA where the top tier charge is $0.24 a KWH they pay off. They do not work for small homes with little if any motor load so we avoid selling them into those homes.
They really work for small businesses and we are happily making good bucks installing these. I am not sure about all the manufacturers but we deal with Power- Save and they are always very professional - they have to be they are publicly traded on NYSE.
So if you insist the earth is flat that is fine by me, more opportunity for the rest of us to make money.

brian john · 03-15-2009, 06:11 PM

A true test would have varying loads measuring KW, KVA, pf, voltage, amps, unit on unit off in a controlled environment, not as you notes testimonials and a residential meter. CONTROLLED test.

And as I noted earlier if these really worked jack leg snake oil salesmen would not just drop in then disappear. The manufacturer's engineer would be on this and other sites with hard proof. Nothing would sell more product than convincing this group of cynics.

JohnJ0906 · 03-15-2009, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian john

. Nothing would sell more product than convincing this group of cynics.

Absolutely.

If something like this actually worked, I would do my best to sell it to customers.
$ saved for the customer
$ for the company
Work for me.
Win-win-win situation.

I guess I am too honest to try to sell something that doesn't work. As a matter of fact, I talked my boss out of trying to sell these.

No-Shorts-Electric · 04-10-2009, 05:13 PM

In this link they show this being tested with an amp meter but they never show KW.
http://www.power-savetv.com/product.html
I ran the same test as in this link, but I also recorded Voltage, current, Real power, (what you are billed for) Apparent Power, (voltage times current) and cosign of the angle (power factor).

I also tested the unit with more inductive and resistive loads and both loads showed no change in real power when the Power Saver Box was turned on.

Here are my conclusions.
Conclusion Claim
Absolutely not ----> Reduces electrical bills up to 25% per month

Maybe ----> Increases motor and appliance life

Will not Eliminate but may help ---> Eliminates power surges

Yes ---> Reduces 'noise' in the electrical system

redbeard43 · 04-10-2009, 11:38 PM

Ok its my turn.. I went into the supply house the other day and they had a dvd set up with some gadgets, so i am a man i had to look. They arent selling it but a salesman came in to set it up for all to see, its called a KVAR energy controller.

Its supposed to reduce electrical waste by electromagneticity and reduces the NON-productive current in the electrical system. It is supposed to increase euip. life by reducing heat around the motor and wiring caused by reactive current...blah blah blah...

here is a sight to check out

www.youtube.com/watch?v=efG2-yk3ZK0

Or read crap here:
http://www.globalgreensavings.com/
Opinion of this crap, let me digress,

The electric meter does not register reactive current, only watts. The
KVAR Energy Controller is a capacitor that reduces I squared R line loss.
By improving the power factor of the electric distribution system or an
individual motor, the KVAR unit reduces excessive reactive current that
produces heat, heat is watts, and watts through the meter are reduced. It
is easy to demonstrate how a capacitor can slow down the electric meter
when it is installed on the load side of the electric company's cash
register.

Follow your instincts, search or try it yourself.

Here is an idea, raise your hand, close your fist, stick out you index finger and turn the switch off, save power....... tadaaaaaaaaa..

RIVETER · 10-31-2009, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheElectricalGuru

I have a question on these things possibly......We know that in a Residential environment the POCO charges by KWH and the meter does spin faster in theory the more wattage that is being used...we can all see this when you go to a meter and someone turns on the strip heat....

Now......granted I know the NEC Code but I am no Electrical Engineer so I have a question.....since consumption is consumption and V x A x PF = W......if something slowed down the meter physically, and I mean to the point you can actually SEE it slow down. Would it not actually save electricity to the consumer?

I am not convinced it would ACTUALLY show a KWH meter down regardless of anything they did, I can see where it would slow down a KVA Meter but not KWH...am I missing something here?

I am a bit nieve at how the poco actually does all this but if you slow down the rotation of the meter itself would it reduce the costs to the consumer? But I am not an electrical engineer and yet even at that I find it hard to believe a capacity trying to bring as much of the load into unity or to a purly resistive load would help slow anything down...I can see how it might help the power company to get rid of a lag but they dont want a lead also.....this gets very confusing to convey and I thank "Charlie b" over on holts site for helping me break this down.

I understand how they charge and the math behind it....just puzzled because I have seen bills where consumers say they saved money but again could it simply be the plazebo effect ( I might have spelled that wrong...lol )

I like to understand its concepts better. If the meter reader is actually looking ( on the old ones ) for the numbers based on revolutions and readings, would not slowing down the revolutions save the consumer money ( Yes, it would )but even if we are talking slightly and if so is it a scam or just a realistic expectation of savings that need to be conveyed.

I think that I know, but I said that I would be quiet.

Peter D · 10-31-2009, 09:13 PM

I just saved a lot of money on my electric bill by switching to PowerSave.

RIVETER · 10-31-2009, 10:59 PM

The vacuum is immense, and I feel as if I am being sucked back in. I do not lie. I know what I know, by testing. Einstein did not achieve credibility until he died.....Okay, there was that "LIGHT BULB" thing by EDISON, as well.

LJSMITH1 · 11-01-2009, 09:32 AM

Riveter - Are you going to find every KVAR, PowerSave, etc. thread on these forums and resurrect it?

You have not conducted controlled tests with properly calibrated equipment - therefore your data is unreliable. Seriously, let it go...

RIVETER · 11-01-2009, 07:21 PM

Man, am I ever glad that I did not bring this subject up. It causes quite a stir.

RIVETER

RIVETER · 11-01-2009, 07:53 PM

Man, am I ever glad that I did not bring this subject up. It causes quite a stir.

RIVETER

RIVETER · 11-14-2009, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter D

I just saved a lot of money on my electric bill by switching to PowerSave.

PeterD, have you ever tried one...for sure? Just asking.

Peter D · 11-14-2009, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIVETER

PeterD, have you ever tried one...for sure? Just asking.

Since when is it necessary to test one to prove it's useless?

RIVETER · 11-14-2009, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter D

Since when is it necessary to test one to prove it's useless?

You are kidding, I assume. I would never make a definitive statement unless I tried it.

Peter D · 11-14-2009, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIVETER

You are kidding, I assume. I would never make a definitive statement unless I tried it.

No, I'm not kidding. By that insane logic I would have to consume cyanide to know it's poisonous and will kill me. I think you're the one who is kidding now with all this nonsense.

thekoolcody · 11-14-2009, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIVETER

You are kidding, I assume. I would never make a definitive statement unless I tried it.

My Instructor showed us (the Class) that it is useless...It really makes little or no diffrence at all.

Speedy Petey · 11-14-2009, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thekoolcody

My Instructor showed us (the Class) that it is useless...It really makes little or no diffrence at all.

I think this is a well known fact.

Due to popular demand we now close this regularly scheduled thread.