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04-11-2012, 07:38 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Twin Cities
Posts: 9,914
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Two prong to three prong
So, we can install a GFCI receptacle to replace the existing two prong receptacles and load side the remaining and install three prong receptacles. Also, we will need to arc fault the circuit. Has anyone done that with older wiring and not have any arc fault issues?
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04-11-2012, 07:56 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Simi Valley, Ca.
Posts: 2,447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris1971
So, we can install a GFCI receptacle to replace the existing two prong receptacles and load side the remaining and install three prong receptacles. Also, we will need to arc fault the circuit. Has anyone done that with older wiring and not have any arc fault issues?
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Why do you have to install an AF breaker? I have not put an AF on older wiring but have heard horror stories
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Amazing love, how can it be, that you, my King, would die for me?
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04-11-2012, 08:33 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Twin Cities
Posts: 9,914
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B W E
Why do you have to install an AF breaker? I have not put an AF on older wiring but have heard horror stories
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I believe it is a requirement in the 2011 code if you replace two prong with a three prong the circuit must be arc faulted if required. I'll need to pull the code book out tomorrow and verify.
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04-11-2012, 08:57 PM
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#4
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Chief Electron Relocator
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cornpatch USA
Posts: 31,312
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210.12(B) Branch Circuit Extensions or Modifications — Dwelling
Units. In any of the areas specified in 210.12(A), where branch-circuit wiring is modified, replaced, or extended, the branch circuit shall be protected by one of the following:
(1) A listed combination-type AFCI located at the origin of the branch circuit
(2) A listed outlet branch-circuit type AFCI located at the first receptacle outlet of the existing branch circuit.
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04-11-2012, 09:22 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: portsmouth, ohio
Posts: 580
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chris1971
I believe it is a requirement in the 2011 code if you replace two prong with a three prong the circuit must be arc faulted if required. I'll need to pull the code book out tomorrow and verify.
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Chris, I believe all you need is GFCI protection not AFCI protection, AFCI only if you extend the circuit or modify it, if your just changing outlets from 2 prong to 3 prong GFCI is fine, someone chime in if I'm wrong
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04-11-2012, 09:28 PM
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#6
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 12,043
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In the 2011 it has changed. The problem is you are looking at the wrong article. Note the Date
Quote:
406.4(D)(4) Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection. Where a receptacle outlet is supplied by a branch circuit that requires arc-fault circuit interrupter protection as specified elsewhere in this Code, a replacement receptacle at this outlet shall be one of the following:
(1) A listed outlet branch circuit type arc-fault circuit interrupter receptacle
(2) A receptacle protected by a listed outlet branch circuit type arc-fault circuit interrupter type receptacle (3) A receptacle protected by a listed combination type arc-fault circuit interrupter type circuit breaker.
This requirement becomes effective January 1, 2014.
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Last edited by Dennis Alwon; 04-11-2012 at 09:31 PM.
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04-11-2012, 09:29 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Twin Cities
Posts: 9,914
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohiosparky99
Chris, I believe all you need is GFCI protection not AFCI protection, AFCI only if you extend the circuit or modify it, if your just changing outlets from 2 prong to 3 prong GFCI is fine, someone chime in if I'm wrong
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Wouldn't changing the receptacles be considered a modification? If so, I believe arc fault would be required.
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04-11-2012, 09:30 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Twin Cities
Posts: 9,914
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon
In the 2011 it has changed. The problem is you are looking at the wrong article.
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So yes, arc fault is required.
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04-11-2012, 09:31 PM
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#9
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 12,043
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris1971
So yes, arc fault is required.
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Look at the last sentence-- the date it is effective
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04-11-2012, 09:35 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Twin Cities
Posts: 9,914
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon
Look at the last sentence-- the date it is effective
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Thanks. I do read most of your posts. 
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04-11-2012, 09:37 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: georgia
Posts: 9,336
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GFCI Breaker
Just GFCI breaker it. I used to try to find the first one on the string and gfci rec. it with all the load off it, but, after much thought it turns out waaaay cheaper to just buy a gfci breaker and protect the whole circuit. You'll save ton's on labor tracing things out and trying to cram gfci rec. in little metal boxes.
Out!
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04-11-2012, 09:39 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Twin Cities
Posts: 9,914
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletis
Just GFCI breaker it. I used to try to find the first one on the string and gfci rec. it with all the load off it, but, after much thought it turns out waaaay cheaper to just buy a gfci breaker and protect the whole circuit. You'll save ton's on labor tracing things out and trying to cram gfci rec. in little metal boxes.
Out!
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That was my initial thought until I thought I needed to arc fault them. That isn't the case. 
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04-11-2012, 09:46 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Simi Valley, Ca.
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So a receptacle is considered "branch circuit wiring?"
And the 406.4 article talks about circuits that should be arc fault protected. Are existing circuits in 50 year old houses required to be arc fault protected? I still say no arc fault required.
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Last edited by B W E; 04-11-2012 at 09:51 PM.
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04-11-2012, 09:53 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Twin Cities
Posts: 9,914
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B W E
So a receptacle is considered "branch circuit wiring?"
And the 406.4 article talks about circuits that should be arc fault protected. Are existing circuits in 50 year old houses required to be arc fault protected? I still say no arc fault required.
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No arc fault until January 2014 if you modify the circuit.
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04-11-2012, 10:01 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: georgia
Posts: 9,336
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ok
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris1971
No arc fault until January 2014 if you modify the circuit.
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Ok. So, I figure somewhere around 2018 that will become active around here...
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04-11-2012, 10:26 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Simi Valley, Ca.
Posts: 2,447
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chris1971
No arc fault until January 2014 if you modify the circuit.
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How is changing a receptacle modifying the circuit? It says "branch wiring". Will changing a light fixture also require us to put in arc faults? How about a switch?
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Amazing love, how can it be, that you, my King, would die for me?
Last edited by B W E; 04-11-2012 at 10:31 PM.
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04-12-2012, 03:21 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Twin Cities
Posts: 9,914
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B W E
How is changing a receptacle modifying the circuit? It says "branch wiring". Will changing a light fixture also require us to put in arc faults? How about a switch?
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If your changing from two prong to three prong, I would consider that a modification.
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04-12-2012, 03:29 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Simi Valley, Ca.
Posts: 2,447
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chris1971
If your changing from two prong to three prong, I would consider that a modification.
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How about toggle to dimmer? Chandelier on fan box to fan?
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Amazing love, how can it be, that you, my King, would die for me?
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04-12-2012, 03:38 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Twin Cities
Posts: 9,914
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B W E
How about toggle to dimmer? Chandelier on fan box to fan?
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210.12B of the 2011 NEC.
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04-12-2012, 03:42 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 412
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Sometimes if I don't have a gfi breaker I will put a gfi outlet or a dead front gfi at the panel for that circuit.
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