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Old 01-08-2017, 08:41 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by telsa View Post
Such a scheme sounds like a flaming violation of NAFTA.

There is no such thing as a 'Certification Mark for America', for example.

A CSA or UL listing suffices.



The CSA Mark
The Canadian Standards Association (CSA) is a nonprofit association serving business, industry, government and consumers in Canada and the global marketplace. Among many other activities, CSA develops standards that enhance public safety.
A Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory, CSA is very familiar with U.S. requirements. According to OSHA regulations, the CSA-US Mark qualifies as an alternative to the UL Mark.
Here are some areas where CSA standards are applied:
  • Canadian Electrical Code, Part III-Outside Wiring
  • Electrical Engineering Standards
  • Electromagnetic Compatibility
http://www.batteryspace.com/ul-ce-emc-fcc-and-csa.aspx


%%%%


These days, I expect to see manufacturing standards internationalized -- with a slew of certifications slapped on them.

&&&

In the bowels of the details: it's manufactured in Mexico. Heh.

ANSI C12.7,
NEMA PB-1,
UL standards 50, 67 And 414,
UL file E-6294,
Federal Specifications W-P-115C,
EUSERC { The Western American Pocos are EUSERC }
Nothing wrong with manufactured in Mexico. Large equipment usually is. Many domestic vehicles are made in Mexico and shipped to USA. Mexico exports to USA are second only to Japan.
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Old 01-08-2017, 05:08 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Byte View Post
CSA is not the only accepted certification for Canada. You better check here before getting excited electricguy:

http://www.municipalaffairs.alberta....CR-2-rev24.pdf
I wasnt going to mention every certification mark as usually it is CSA on service equipment
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Old 01-10-2017, 09:22 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by electricguy View Post
I may need to install one of these, the T&B 200 Amp QO is 716.00 my cost
a 200 amp 250 V fusible outdoor rated disconnect is 498.00 SQ D
are these reasonable prices to pay

seems high
Sure wish we had those in Canada. It is 100% safer to have overload protection before the service wires enter inside the house.
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Old 01-10-2017, 09:25 AM   #24
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Sure wish we had those in Canada. It is 100% safer to have overload protection before the service wires enter inside the house.
No, not really.

It doesn't matter if overload protection is before or after the entrance.

What you mean is short circuit protection. But even still, that is not "100% safer". The fact of the matter is that there are no issues, houses aren't blowing up due to lack of outside OCPD's. It's a non-issue.
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Old 01-10-2017, 09:50 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HackWork View Post
No, not really.

It doesn't matter if overload protection is before or after the entrance.

What you mean is short circuit protection. But even still, that is not "100% safer". The fact of the matter is that there are no issues, houses aren't blowing up due to lack of outside OCPD's. It's a non-issue.
There is a 'presumption' of safety that some have bought into or else it wouldn't be required by some locales. Much like AFCIs the thought is nice.

But as you say it isn't like services are bursting into flames on a daily basis.
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Old 01-10-2017, 09:54 AM   #26
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No, not really.

It doesn't matter if overload protection is before or after the entrance.

What you mean is short circuit protection. But even still, that is not "100% safer". The fact of the matter is that there are no issues, houses aren't blowing up due to lack of outside OCPD's. It's a non-issue.
Sorry, I meant safer because the POCO's service conductors do not rip under faults the same as our panel breakers. So, in that scenario it is safer to have consumer breakers on the outside of the house.
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Old 01-10-2017, 09:58 AM   #27
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Sorry, I meant safer because the POCO's service conductors do not rip under faults the same as our panel breakers. So, in that scenario it is safer to have consumer breakers on the outside of the house.
There are fuses on the power lines here, not the same up there?
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Old 01-10-2017, 09:58 AM   #28
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There must be a reason to enclose the service wires as required by code?
6-208 Consumer’s service conductors location
(1) Raceways or cables containing consumer’s service conductors shall be located outside buildings unless they are
(a) embedded in and encircled by not less than 50 mm of concrete or masonry where permitted by Section 12;
(b) directly buried in accordance with Rule 6-300 and located beneath a concrete slab not less than 50 mm thick; or
(c) run in a crawl space located underneath a structure, provided that such a crawl space
(i) does not exceed 1.8 m in height between the lowest part of the floor assembly and the ground or other surface below it;
(ii) is of non-combustible construction; and
(iii) is not used for the storage of combustible material.
(2) Notwithstanding Subrule (1), raceways or cables containing consumer’s service conductors shall be permitted to enter the building for connection to a service box.
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Old 01-10-2017, 09:59 AM   #29
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Sorry, I meant safer because the POCO's service conductors do not rip under faults the same as our panel breakers. So, in that scenario it is safer to have consumer breakers on the outside of the house.
How so?

What have you seen happen to those few feet of conductors or cable between the meter and inside panel?

I've never seen a single issue myself, neither personally or in the 15 years I've been reading other people's problems on electrical forums.
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Old 01-10-2017, 10:03 AM   #30
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You are lucky. I ask questions and that is a great way to understand the CEC.
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Old 01-10-2017, 10:11 AM   #31
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You are lucky. I ask questions and that is a great way to understand the CEC.
Well, no, you made a blatant assertion of something being "100% safer" when it seems as if it might not actually change the safety at all.

Let's try to avoid misinformation. This is reminding me of the incorrect information you were posting the other day about 3 foot ladders being banned in all of Canada.
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Old 01-10-2017, 10:16 AM   #32
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There are fuses on the power lines here, not the same up there?
Now that's interesting. Somewhere between the transformer and the
building the wires are fused in your area? Not the case here. Where
are the fuses and how are they replaced?
Nearly every time I have a discussion with the ESA (inspectors) or
Hydro One (poco) regarding service wires the specific term "unfused
conductors" is used.
P&L
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Old 01-10-2017, 10:19 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by PlugsAndLights View Post
Now that's interesting. Somewhere between the transformer and the
building the wires are fused in your area? Not the case here. Where
are the fuses and how are they replaced?
Nearly every time I have a discussion with the ESA (inspectors) or
Hydro One (poco) regarding service wires the specific term "unfused
conductors" is used.
P&L
The transformer is fused of course. I read somewhere that the OH lines can stay energized under direct shorts and I have personally seen a high wind situation causing the OH line to a house catch fire. That is not safe in any language. Imagine if the wires caught fire inside the conduit?
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Old 01-10-2017, 10:23 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by PlugsAndLights View Post
Now that's interesting. Somewhere between the transformer and the
building the wires are fused in your area? Not the case here. Where
are the fuses and how are they replaced?
Nearly every time I have a discussion with the ESA (inspectors) or
Hydro One (poco) regarding service wires the specific term "unfused
conductors" is used.
P&L
In my particular area each house has it's own pole mounted transformer and underground service. The lines that are feeding those transformers are fused up on the pole in varying intervals, it could be every 12 transformers or maybe even for an entire street.

The poco has to change them.
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Old 01-10-2017, 10:28 AM   #35
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The transformer is fused of course. I read somewhere that the OH lines can stay energized under direct shorts and I have personally seen a high wind situation causing the OH line to a house catch fire. That is not safe in any language. Imagine if the wires caught fire inside the conduit?
Yes, we can imagine. But that's still just your imagination.

In the real world, there simply aren't any issues. If there were, outside disco's with OCPD's would be required.

As for the power company fusing their conductors, they use cut-outs up on the poles:

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Old 01-10-2017, 10:41 AM   #36
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In my particular area each house has it's own pole mounted transformer and underground service. The lines that are feeding those transformers are fused up on the pole in varying intervals, it could be every 12 transformers or maybe even for an entire street.

The poco has to change them.
OK. That's interesting too. Perhaps "unfused" isn't as accurate a term
as "underfused" would be.....
Fused in much the same way that tap conductors from a splitter is
fused ie at a higher amperage than ideal for that size of wire.
P&L
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Old 01-10-2017, 10:43 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by HackWork View Post
Yes, we can imagine. But that's still just your imagination.

In the real world, there simply aren't any issues. If there were, outside disco's with OCPD's would be required.

As for the power company fusing their conductors, they use cut-outs up on the poles:

Attachment 98194
Please do not be so rude with your comments, it was not my imagination. I witnessed the overhead distribution lines touching one another and the resulting flash sustained itself and caused a wildfire. The fault carried towards houses and their grounding. It took quite awhile for the fuses to open. By the time they did, the OH service to my neighbor's house were on fire.
Service shorts do happen and it does not have to be on a "daily basis" to be a concern. Everybody should respect electricity.
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Old 01-10-2017, 10:47 AM   #38
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What's that saying about leading a horse to water?

Even in the story that you told, having an outside OCPD wouldn't have helped. It's all in your imagination, there is no "100% safer" in real world circumstances.

Last edited by HackWork; 01-10-2017 at 10:50 AM.
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Old 01-10-2017, 11:04 AM   #39
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OK. That's interesting too. Perhaps "unfused" isn't as accurate a term
as "underfused" would be.....
Fused in much the same way that tap conductors from a splitter is
fused ie at a higher amperage than ideal for that size of wire.
P&L
I think that is SOP for pocos everywhere.
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Old 01-10-2017, 11:10 AM   #40
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Please do not be so rude with your comments, it was not my imagination. I witnessed the overhead distribution lines touching one another and the resulting flash sustained itself and caused a wildfire. The fault carried towards houses and their grounding. It took quite awhile for the fuses to open. By the time they did, the OH service to my neighbor's house were on fire.
Service shorts do happen and it does not have to be on a "daily basis" to be a concern. Everybody should respect electricity.
Having main OC protection on the outside of a house at the meter will not protect the overhead wiring from the pole from burning or stop them if they set the house on fire.
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