2012 Code - Page 2 - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum

k_buz · 04-11-2012, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darren79

The reason that panel is side ways is because there is a barrier between the main lugs and the rest of the panel. So if you put it with the main breaker at the top you wouldn't be able to bring wires in through the top of it.

That is the only reason I could see it being done, this would only be done in a residential setting. You would never see this in a commercial setting(at least I hope not)

So am I to assume that panels are manufactured differently in Canada than in the US? Not that I look that often, but I thought there was a stamped "UP" inside the can.

BBQ · 04-11-2012, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k_buz

So am I to assume that panels are manufactured differently in Canada than in the US? Not that I look that often, but I thought there was a stamped "UP" inside the can.

Yes, they do come differently.

Ontariojer · 04-13-2012, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dronai

Except I think Canada should stand their panels up vertical

Tell me what looks more Hack

As someone who does a lot of service changes/upgrades on older homes, I can tell you I REALLY like the flexibility of being able to orient the panel either way!

I find it strange that you guys find it strange.

RIVETER · 04-13-2012, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xlink

I think our calculations are the same as they were but the numbers have changed a lot. It's supposed to match the NEC. You might think that selling ready-to-move homes to each other would spur our economies, but we still use different wire so that won't work. It must be so Mega-Corp can hire one engineer instead of one from each country.

How can calculations change and the numbers be the same?

xlink · 04-13-2012, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIVETER

How can calculations change and the numbers be the same?

It depends on the order of the words. The calculations are the same and the numbers changed. 14 awg used to be good for 15 amps and now its good for 25 amps but you probably can't use the 90 degree column for a lot of things. And you can only fuse 14 awg at 15 amps. It takes a lot of work to get the correct wire size. 2012 Wire Size Calculator

dronai · 04-13-2012, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ontariojer

As someone who does a lot of service changes/upgrades on older homes, I can tell you I REALLY like the flexibility of being able to orient the panel either way!

I find it strange that you guys find it strange.

The idea of flexibility is great. Just looks odd to us, or me.

RIVETER · 04-13-2012, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xlink

It depends on the order of the words. The calculations are the same and the numbers changed. 14 awg used to be good for 15 amps and now its good for 25 amps but you probably can't use the 90 degree column for a lot of things. And you can only fuse 14 awg at 15 amps. It takes a lot of work to get the correct wire size. 2012 Wire Size Calculator

#14 copper has always been good for 200 amps...uninsulated...in free air. It is the quality of the insulation that is important.

dronai · 04-13-2012, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukoner

if im doing residential panel upgrades sometimes the branch circuits are too short to hit the neutral. so i have to turn the panel sideways. only done it about 4 times but had to be done

I use wirenuts on those neutrals

xlink · 04-13-2012, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIVETER

#14 copper has always been good for 200 amps...uninsulated...in free air. It is the quality of the insulation that is important.

That's the solution to all my problems. I'm going to use bare wire from now on and I'll specialize in 200 amp services. I'M GOING TO BE RICH!

Ontariojer · 04-14-2012, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dronai

I use wirenuts on those neutrals

Because you have to. I can just turn the panel saving time and(making more) money.

Handasee · 04-14-2012, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xlink

It depends on the order of the words. The calculations are the same and the numbers changed. 14 awg used to be good for 15 amps and now its good for 25 amps but you probably can't use the 90 degree column for a lot of things. And you can only fuse 14 awg at 15 amps. It takes a lot of work to get the correct wire size. 2012 Wire Size Calculator

4-006 (OESC) will make a major difference. Previous codes, I just looked at table 2, if I was using thhn, then the 90 deg column.
Now I must know the terminal lug data. I looked up Schneider CH362 disconnect. Page DE2-23 of their catalogue states the terminal lug is rated for 75 deg, so now I have to use the 75 deg column of table 2.
Its going to cost me more time now that I have to check the conductor terminal temperature on all equipment I buy. Had to search for the CH362 info. If all manufactures have the same terminal temperatures then its just a case of learning the new, but if their is differences (if some mfg has 90 deg rated) then mismatching the equipment and wire size could cost me.

farlsincharge · 04-14-2012, 12:03 PM

I just found this on schneider's site
What is the termination temperature rating of a QO breaker?

QO breakers rated 10 to 30 amps, GFI, AFI breakers are suitable for use with 60 deg C or 75 deg C wire. QO breakers rated 35 to 125 amps are rated for use with 75 deg C wire only.

I was excited about the 2012 code at first, now not so much.

xlink · 04-14-2012, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farlsincharge

I just found this on schneider's site
What is the termination temperature rating of a QO breaker?

QO breakers rated 10 to 30 amps, GFI, AFI breakers are suitable for use with 60 deg C or 75 deg C wire. QO breakers rated 35 to 125 amps are rated for use with 75 deg C wire only.

I was excited about the 2012 code at first, now not so much.

It might be that 90 degree rating is as rare as hens' teeth. This is a rule the Americans have been living with. We should check with them.

The solution is to put a box by every panel and change wire size for the last foot.

dkeats5 · 04-26-2012, 02:52 PM

I was just wondering with the new code, my instructor mentioned the other day that you may now have to put a gfci on a hot water tank.. is this true?

JPRO2 · 04-26-2012, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkeats5

I was just wondering with the new code, my instructor mentioned the other day that you may now have to put a gfci on a hot water tank.. is this true?

Hey yes it is true if the water heater uses a bare uninsulated heating element in direct contact with the water

26-762
1(c)

Ontariojer · 04-26-2012, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPRO2

Hey yes it is true if the water heater uses a bare uninsulated heating element in direct contact with the water

26-762
1(c)

The type that refers to is usually the "instant hot water" heaters you have on the counter, and possibly the whole house on deman d electric water heaters. The typical resi tank style water heater does not fit this. Code forthat would be
'26-750 Installation of storage-tank water heaters'. Relax.

Ontariojer · 04-26-2012, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkeats5

I was just wondering with the new code, my instructor mentioned the other day that you may now have to put a gfci on a hot water tank.. is this true?

No. TANK heaters don't. Instant/demand heaters probably do, but MUST be marked as 'bare element'

BTW this isn't a code change. It was in the 2009 for sure, and earlier I think.

Feel free to look like a know it all and correct him(look it up and be prepared to defend however