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Old 09-08-2016, 11:06 PM   #1
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Default Adding a hot tub to a full/almost full panel

Just a scenario that we were discussing at work today.
Homeowner calls you and asks to hook up a hot tub but their 100 amp panel is full or has one panel slot free, basically they cannot fit a double pole breaker in the panel.
You notice its a Siemens panel and it's also full of tandem breakers with the exception of 3-4 regular sized 15 amp breakers.
Should this service be upgraded the service to 200 amps or would it be to code to swap out 2 of the regular 15 amp breakers for a 15/50/15 quad?
At what point is it a requirement to upgrade the panel or service or is a service upgrade never enforced by the code?
Pardon my ignorance and I should probably already know the answer to this question but I do not.
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Old 09-08-2016, 11:21 PM   #2
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What does a load calc say, hypothetically?
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Old 09-08-2016, 11:34 PM   #3
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@spinninwheels is right. Bit of a pain but putting the numbers into 8-200
is the only way to know. If most of the usual 240V loads aren't on gas
instead (ie water heater), there's not much chance of room for hot tub
load, but the numbers will tell the story for sure.
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Old 09-08-2016, 11:47 PM   #4
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I walked into a full 150 service and most were the tandys. Ahj friggin hated the panel and those tandys but didn't say crap about what was there outside of the job. I did a load calc and found what I could splice together and made room. Last option was a sub panel or replace main for a larger one.
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Old 09-08-2016, 11:52 PM   #5
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Load calc! As previously posted. Article 220 and tons of examples in the annex. Use the end of the article, before farms. Part IV I think. There's a nice table in there for adding to existing dwellings. It's very liberal with the demand factors so warn the customer if it's getting close.
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Old 09-09-2016, 12:01 AM   #6
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Note to op: this thread would be better suited in Canadian Code section.
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Old 09-09-2016, 01:14 AM   #7
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Quote:
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Note to op: this thread would be better suited in Canadian Code section.
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Thanks how can it be moved to the camadian forums?
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Old 09-09-2016, 02:00 AM   #8
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Doesn't matter. NEC and CEC are going to tell you the same thing. Definitely do the load calc but it's doubtful a hot tub will tip it to a service/panel upgrade. Nothing wrong with putting in tandems but subs are easy. Don't go for a cheesy 4/8 sub. The difference in cost to a 12/24 is almost nothing.

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Old 09-09-2016, 02:36 AM   #9
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And those plastic Square D spa packs are pathetic. Go with Siemens or Eaton.
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Old 09-09-2016, 07:04 AM   #10
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I've a number of Hot h20's who's 40/50/60A sequencer option allowed it to squeak by the demand load calc @ the 40 setting on a 100A service.....

Oh and, don't listen to the manufacturers statistical power usage song/dance , there's a lot more tubs in warmer clims to offset those #'s

~CS~
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Old 09-09-2016, 06:55 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Thanks how can it be moved to the camadian forums?
Don't worry about it Canaduh. Maybe for next Candian code thread.
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Old 09-09-2016, 07:49 PM   #12
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I have done this a ton of times. I always let them know that they need a new service and about 2 out of 10 will do it. The problem with these jobs is normally they buy a used one and can't afford to wire it. Get your $ up front.
Honestly every time I have hooked one up to a 100 amp service I have never had any trouble. Telling them you have to spend $300-$500 just to make it work can sometimes sell the service change.
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Old 09-10-2016, 01:38 AM   #13
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square D makes a 240 / 2-120 breaker that fits in the space of two breakers. does anyone else have those?
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Old 09-10-2016, 01:45 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papaotis View Post
square D makes a 240 / 2-120 breaker that fits in the space of two breakers. does anyone else have those?
Ya talking about the quad verison ? ya I know it useally found in homeline verison but the QO I doubt it .,
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Old 09-10-2016, 03:10 AM   #15
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Quote:
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square D makes a 240 / 2-120 breaker that fits in the space of two breakers. does anyone else have those?
you mean a 120/240 V slash breaker ?
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Old 09-10-2016, 03:14 AM   #16
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oops was wanting to start a new topic

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Old 09-10-2016, 03:16 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbrn33 View Post
I have done this a ton of times. I always let them know that they need a new service and about 2 out of 10 will do it. The problem with these jobs is normally they buy a used one and can't afford to wire it. Get your $ up front.
Honestly every time I have hooked one up to a 100 amp service I have never had any trouble. Telling them you have to spend $300-$500 just to make it work can sometimes sell the service change.
Fairly often I bet there are heater repairs in the not so distant future.
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Old 09-10-2016, 09:38 AM   #18
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Quote:
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you mean a 120/240 V slash breaker ?
What's this one?
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