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Old 05-12-2011, 06:14 PM   #1
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Default " Bare Ground"

Wondering if someone can tell me if the ground wire for a residential service has to be insulated when entering the panel? Can't seem to find anything in the code book, but this dosen"t seem right to me!

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Old 05-12-2011, 06:19 PM   #2
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Wondering if someone can tell me if the ground wire for a residential service has to be insulated when entering the panel? Can't seem to find anything in the code book, but this dosen"t seem right to me!


Around here it does not until you get over a 400 amp service.


WAIT! what are you calling a "ground wire"? The GEC does not have to be insulated either.

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Old 05-12-2011, 06:24 PM   #3
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Wondering if someone can tell me if the ground wire for a residential service has to be insulated when entering the panel? Can't seem to find anything in the code book, but this dosen"t seem right to me!
The bonding conductor?
Both insulated or non is fine.
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Old 05-12-2011, 08:32 PM   #4
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Wondering if someone can tell me if the ground wire for a residential service has to be insulated when entering the panel? Can't seem to find anything in the code book, but this dosen"t seem right to me!
You won't find a code saying you can or can't, there simply isn't a code for that situation. You just need to use an approved connector i.e. an L-16 or one of those plastic things that I can't remember the name for.
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Old 05-12-2011, 08:34 PM   #5
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You are in Canada I presume, CEC09?
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Old 05-12-2011, 08:46 PM   #6
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You are in Canada I presume, CEC09?
Yes...I am.
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Old 05-12-2011, 08:48 PM   #7
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Yes...I am.
I couldnt see you location from my phone. Is the cec available online?
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Old 05-12-2011, 08:52 PM   #8
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You won't find a code saying you can or can't, there simply isn't a code for that situation. You just need to use an approved connector i.e. an L-16 or one of those plastic things that I can't remember the name for.
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Old 05-12-2011, 08:52 PM   #9
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You won't find a code saying you can or can't, there simply isn't a code for that situation. You just need to use an approved connector i.e. an L-16 or one of those plastic things that I can't remember the name for.
I realize we have to use an approved connector when entering the panel to secure the wire, but that's not the question. I'm wondering if we can use bare copper to ground the N for service entrance? I feel in doing this there will be a ground loop created as this wire is touching the cabinet as well.....I just can't find nothing in the code to say that this shall not be done!
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Old 05-12-2011, 08:54 PM   #10
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I couldnt see you location from my phone. Is the cec available online?
I don't think it is! What does the NEC say on this topic?
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Old 05-12-2011, 08:57 PM   #11
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I don't think it is! What does the NEC say on this topic?
Bare is fine, if covered must be green up to #6. Same for the GEC except it need not be green.
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Old 05-13-2011, 06:04 PM   #12
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The service ground is permitted to be bare and almost always is. see 10-802
The ground wire to the telephone protector must be insulated. 60-704
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Old 05-13-2011, 08:45 PM   #13
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Is the cec available online?
Sort of, you can order it in hard copy, CD-Rom or PDF from the CSA.

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I realize we have to use an approved connector when entering the panel to secure the wire, but that's not the question. I'm wondering if we can use bare copper to ground the N for service entrance? I feel in doing this there will be a ground loop created as this wire is touching the cabinet as well.....I just can't find nothing in the code to say that this shall not be done!
OK I get your question, I assumed your concerns had to do with physically protecting the wire in a connector rather than bonding.

In any case, any incidental contact a bare grounding conductor makes to metal parts like the panel shell, before landing on the ground lug in the main service is a non issue. I get what you're worried about but I can't think of a way to make it simple without raising dozens of other questions.

Grounding and bonding is one of the most misunderstood things in our trade. Mostly from improper terminology and years and years of misconceptions that are hard to break. I really wish they'd hammer it into apprentices from day one in trade school, though it was never really taught at all.

I don't know if there's a Canadian equivalent to the Soars book on grounding and bonding, but it would be a good read.
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Old 05-13-2011, 08:56 PM   #14
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The bonding conductor?
Both insulated or non is fine.
Just for clarification, why are you calling it a bonding conductor?
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Old 05-13-2011, 09:08 PM   #15
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I believe CEC09 is talking about the neutral being bare from the meter to the service panel. In the NEC that is perfectly legit although seldom seen unless you use seu cable.

If I am wrong about what you are asking then I apologize.
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Old 05-13-2011, 09:40 PM   #16
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I believe CEC09 is talking about the neutral being bare from the meter to the service panel. In the NEC that is perfectly legit although seldom seen unless you use seu cable.

If I am wrong about what you are asking then I apologize.
No problem, Mike 586 answered my concern in his last post.
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Old 05-13-2011, 09:40 PM   #17
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I believe CEC09 is talking about the neutral being bare from the meter to the service panel. In the NEC that is perfectly legit although seldom seen unless you use seu cable.

If I am wrong about what you are asking then I apologize.
I don't do services...per Se, these days, but you bring up an interesting point.If the neutral is bare fom the meter on in and the conduit is metallic are you not having a parallel path for system current in the conduit? Maybe I am thinking wrongly.
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Old 05-13-2011, 09:43 PM   #18
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Sort of, you can order it in hard copy, CD-Rom or PDF from the CSA.



OK I get your question, I assumed your concerns had to do with physically protecting the wire in a connector rather than bonding.

In any case, any incidental contact a bare grounding conductor makes to metal parts like the panel shell, before landing on the ground lug in the main service is a non issue. I get what you're worried about but I can't think of a way to make it simple without raising dozens of other questions.

Grounding and bonding is one of the most misunderstood things in our trade. Mostly from improper terminology and years and years of misconceptions that are hard to break. I really wish they'd hammer it into apprentices from day one in trade school, though it was never really taught at all.

I don't know if there's a Canadian equivalent to the Soars book on grounding and bonding, but it would be a good read.

Thanks Mike, Just seems to me that by doing this, a ground loop has been created? What do you think? And this wire, which normally comes from a copper water line or ground rod would be the ground wire not a bond wire..correct?
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Old 05-13-2011, 09:54 PM   #19
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Sort of, you can order it in hard copy, CD-Rom or PDF from the CSA.



OK I get your question, I assumed your concerns had to do with physically protecting the wire in a connector rather than bonding.

In any case, any incidental contact a bare grounding conductor makes to metal parts like the panel shell, before landing on the ground lug in the main service is a non issue. I get what you're worried about but I can't think of a way to make it simple without raising dozens of other questions.

Grounding and bonding is one of the most misunderstood things in our trade. Mostly from improper terminology and years and years of misconceptions that are hard to break. I really wish they'd hammer it into apprentices from day one in trade school, though it was never really taught at all.

I don't know if there's a Canadian equivalent to the Soars book on grounding and bonding, but it would be a good read.
I agree with you. If people would just explain that grounding has ONLY to do with the "GROUNDING" electrode...pipe...rod...ufer.....and that is for abberrant voltages. After that, BONDING is so that all metallic portions of an electrical system are at the same potential...which happens to be at ground potential because you intended it to be.
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Old 05-13-2011, 09:55 PM   #20
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You grounding conductor is the one coming from the ground rod/ground plate or the street side of the water meter and going directly to the panel. Its the one giving the system a reference to ground.

Everything else is a bonding conductor and that includes the (typically) #6 going to the gas/water pipes.

I get what you're asking about a loop, but there really isn't anything to worry about there. I can't find a good image, give me a day or two and I'll find one in one of my books, it'll make it much easier to understand

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