Is it difficult to find Apprenticeships? - Page 3 - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum

Vapour Trails · 04-05-2012, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lortech

If you are willing to move, consider moving to a city that needs apprentice electricians.

I'm not willing to relocate at this point in time. Our friends/family are here and my wife still has a good job. I can go back into my old line of work if necessary.

Can someone tell me when it comes to getting union electrical jobs in Canada, do you get hired by the employer and then join the union or do you join the union and then find a job?

Talking with the secretary at the local 2085 didn't make it totally clear. It sounded like I was supposed to submit my resume to the union and employers simultaneously.

There are many big projects underway this summer in Winnipeg and they are mostly carried out by the big union contractors. This could prove to be my best shot.

habsfan79 · 04-06-2012, 08:00 PM

Just joined this forum & this was the first thread I read...my experience in getting into the trade in Winnipeg is that it definitely helps to know someone, but it's not impossible. My situation was similar to yours (32yrs old, no previous electrical experience, solid job history) and I got an interview through a friend who already worked at the company (non-union). I was hired in July, worked a TON over the last 9 months (standard week was 4 10s, 8 on Fri), and now I'm starting school on Tuesday. There's definitely work out there as we are steady right now with a couple more projects coming. Don't give up!

gottspeed · 04-07-2012, 04:15 PM

I'm so glad I was born in Alberta.

Vapour Trails · 04-09-2012, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by habsfan79

Just joined this forum & this was the first thread I read...my experience in getting into the trade in Winnipeg is that it definitely helps to know someone, but it's not impossible. My situation was similar to yours (32yrs old, no previous electrical experience, solid job history) and I got an interview through a friend who already worked at the company (non-union). I was hired in July, worked a TON over the last 9 months (standard week was 4 10s, 8 on Fri), and now I'm starting school on Tuesday. There's definitely work out there as we are steady right now with a couple more projects coming. Don't give up!

It's good to hear this, I do have a few connections so hopefully something works out.

tampajay70 · 04-20-2012, 06:10 AM

Hey tradesmen...question for you. You mention that there is a 4 year waiting list for the Moose Jaw school? Can I ask where you got that information from? The reason I am asking is that I work at K2 mine in Esterhazy as an electrical apprentice (haven't gone to school yet.) and I will be attending in the fall along with 3 others from my workplace...we all just had our paperwork filled out and handed in no more than a month ago...could it be the relationship that my employer has with the schools? Thank you for the reply...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tradesman

Good for you VT! I was in a completely different industry/career when I made the choice to pursue a trade.

Having gone through this thread I'll add my .02. Pre-employment is quite frankly a joke. For a few reason.

1. For one thing (in sask) it really under prepares you for 2nd year schooling. I'm getting the impression in other provinces you can get credit for second year as well? Here you can't. So you go through 1st year schooling in 6months as opposed to the usual 8 weeks. The pace is slow and when you go back for second year you are thrown for a loop at how fast you are expected to learn the material. Which can lead to feeling lost in class and that produces poor marks.

2. I've worked for a few contractors now both union and private. They do NOT like to hire "preemies". Here is their reasoning. You are taught techniques that, quite frankly we don't want. From my experience I have to re-teach these kids on how to put on marettes, how to do joints, how to feed wire and take off the outer sheath of armoured cable. I believe most companies want a "clean slate" with their new hires. That way we can teach you the basics ourselves and how WE want things done.

3. Essentially pre-employment or not, for the first 6 weeks you will be a material mule. Meaning you are going to get the stuff I need to do the job. I don't care if you got pre-employment or not. To me a 1st year is a 1st year.

3. You don't come into the job with an attitude. Thinking you are somehow more experienced than other apprentices. I've seen in a bunch of times. Granted that could just be the way these kids are and would think this regardless of pre-employment, perhaps. But if a new hire shows me that attitude with comments like, "well why do you do it like that, because in pre-employement . . . . ."

4. The waiting list. In Sask (if you aren't female or a minority) you have to wait 4 years to get into the Moose Jaw course and 2.5 years to get into the PA course. Maybe it is less than that in Manitoba, not sure.

Having said that. If you can't find a job right away. My advice is to get a job at an electrical wholesaler like an Eecol or Westco. At least there you will be around the material we Journeyman use everyday. It would be a HUGE benefit to learn about the tools, terminology and the vast array of products we use. Not to mention to get a grasp of the cost associated with the work. I've worked with new guys who have come from 6months to a year at a wholesaler and my lord what a world of difference that can make.

Bottom line, like you said the biggest asset is a mechanical ability, willingness to learn (even from people much younger than you) and the ability to problem solve. Most importantly leave the attitude at home!

Lastly I'll touch on the whole Union vs. non-union topic. Of course always a very intense one in my experience. I did my entire apprenticeship with a private contractor, since then I have been with union companies.

This is coming strictly from my personal experience. I wouldn't have changed where I apprenticed for anything! Private is a great place to learn the trade, better than a union hall imo. To me you are exposed to a lot of different aspects of the trade. You work with people who WANT to teach you. I found that with private it feels more like a team environment with everyone there for a common goal. With union, my experience is that everyone is more concerned with 'self preservation' than teaching apprentices.

Secondly (at least in Sask) all unions are strictly industrial. I would recommend you work for a commercial electrical contractor. Commercial electrical to me is where you will gain the most exposure to the many different facets of the trade. You will work with an array of different voltages, systems and material. As opposed to industrial or residential. You do NOT want to get pigeonholed with a limited skillset.

Lastly with a private contractor you aren't traveling all over Canada. You will most likely stay within your city or close to it. Because let's be honest when you work for a union you are working for a middleman. You are NOT working for a company. You work for people who need guys for a set amount of time. With the hall you always run the risk of getting laid off. Layoffs are not fun, especially for an apprentice. In my experience if you are good at your job a private contractor will do everything they can to keep you steadily employed.

BUT. As a journeyman the private contractors cannot touch the benefits or pay of a union. The main reason I went union is because of the pension program plain and simple. I wanted to secure my retirement. The wages are roughly 4 dollars an hour more, you have the security of a pension, power tools are provided, in my case clothing was provided, overtime is double time not time and a half, some offer sick days, etc. There are a lot of benefits. To each their own though.

So. Footnotes.

Can't find an apprenticeship right away, work for a wholesaler until something comes up.

Stay away from pre-employement.

If you can, work for a commercial contractor for the greatest exposure to the diversity of this trade.

Congrats and I hope you enjoy the ride as much as I did. The trades are SUCH a great career choice. You will have skills that are in high demand and INCREASING. A job that pays over $70000 a year. A career that when you finish your training you will have zero debt! I am very happy that I made the switch and I'm sure you will be to.

Tradesman.

troubleshooting · 04-25-2012, 12:40 PM

Currently in Manitoba there is only one school that offers pre-employment where the student gets credit for 1 and 2 level SCHOOLING. That is Winnipeg Technical College.

RRC offers a 5 month level 1 only pre-employment course.

Both courses come with credit hours, but as the hiring contractor it is up to you if you want them to recieve that credit.

The advantage to the employer in hiring one of these people is you know you have a longer time before they are yanked away from you to go to school and you have to find another apprentice or do without for 10 weeks.

Remember there are more electrical jobs that just construction. You have OEM's and industrial maintenance, caretaking, sales, alarm systems, security, voice data video and other areas where these people can find work with the same basic skill sets.

Pre employment gives the student some basic knowledge and basic skills. It gives them a taste of the trade and surprising some hate it.

Isn't it better they find that out in a pre employment program that after working for you for a month, wasting your time?

Vapour Trails · 04-25-2012, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troubleshooting

Currently in Manitoba there is only one school that offers pre-employment where the student gets credit for 1 and 2 level SCHOOLING. That is Winnipeg Technical College.

RRC offers a 5 month level 1 only pre-employment course.

Thanks for the clarification, I wish I had known this sooner as maybe the waiting list at WTC would have been shorter.

The 2012 Manitoba Budget has also increased the tax incentives for hiring apprentices. I'm assuming this was done because, as I am finding out, it's pretty hard to convince anyone to take a chance on you.

Although I am still holding out some hope; I'm beginning to let the thought of becoming an electrician go.

troubleshooting · 04-25-2012, 01:22 PM

I had a former student that would have a stack of resumes on his truck seat. Everytime he saw a contractors van at a gas station he went and talked to them and gave them a resume. It took about a month, but started finding jobs.

He bounced around a bit till he found a place he liked working.

Watch yourself, there are a couple of real crooked contractors out there. They won't register you, using excuses like my fax is broken.

You are just getting screwed for time. Probably money too.

There are also some amazing guys to work for.

Vapour Trails · 04-25-2012, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troubleshooting

Watch yourself, there are a couple of real crooked contractors out there. They won't register you, using excuses like my fax is broken.

This is why I've mainly applied at contractors that I have a connection or "network" to through somebody I know so I can have a little background on them.

Tradesman · 04-27-2012, 09:56 PM

"Hey tradesmen...question for you. You mention that there is a 4 year waiting list for the Moose Jaw school? Can I ask where you got that information from? The reason I am asking is that I work at K2 mine in Esterhazy as an electrical apprentice (haven't gone to school yet.) and I will be attending in the fall along with 3 others from my workplace...we all just had our paperwork filled out and handed in no more than a month ago...could it be the relationship that my employer has with the schools? Thank you for the reply..."

That info is from the apprenticeship board. I was referring to "pre-employment" which consists of people who are not currently indentured or working as an apprentice. You are going for 1st year schooling, which is the same course but you aren't paying the $1000's of dollars for it. Good luck!

arni19 · 04-27-2012, 10:50 PM

I am from Moose Jaw and from
What i gather is that there is a multi year wait for pre employment electrical at moose jaw campus, as most employers require this for a new hire this seems to be the way most apprentices are starting out. This leaves plenty of room and not much wait to get into 1st year electrical schooling. Not sure if the apprenticeship would play favorites with your employer as this would involve conflict in the industry that the government does not care for. Good luck with your apprenticeship.

Tradesman · 04-28-2012, 03:15 PM

"Isn't it better they find that out in a pre employment program that after working for you for a month, wasting your time?"

I would disagree. There is no point waiting for 2+ years on a list to get into pre-employment to find out you don't like this type of work. That is simply a waste of time. Not to mention pre-employment costs thousands of dollars to take the course.

Being hired on green doesn't cost anything other than the cost of a pair of steel toed boots and a starter set of tools. I recommend anyone interested in starting an apprenticeship simply take the initiative and go down and talk to your local contractors, hand out resumes, etc.

"What i gather is that there is a multi year wait for pre employment electrical at moose jaw campus, as most employers require this for a new hire this seems to be the way most apprentices are starting out."

I was told that by Darren and Mike at Moose Jaw campus as well. Don't forget Siast is a business like any other, if they can't convince people to take their pre-employment courses they lose money. You get a completely different story when you go to the actual employers however. You show an employer that you have a mechanical aptitude and the willingness to learn this trade and that is in a lot of cases enough to get someone to take a chance on you. It all comes down to having a successful interview Pre-employment or not.

I can understand people's frustration. Because the truth of the matter is the people getting apprenticeships are the people who know somebody in the office or a current Jman/apprentice on staff right now. It wasn't like that even 5 years ago.

gottspeed · 04-28-2012, 04:18 PM

Its true, your best bet is get hired on at some jobber company to get indentured and then once you have basic skills, move on to commercial as soon as possible to get the skills you'll really need to become an electrician.

Where I come from a pre trades course would be seen as an impediment, a statement to the world that you don't think you have what it takes already.

magneticpersona · 04-28-2012, 07:58 PM

I was able to get my first job as an apprentice through connections, but my second job was obtained by following some great advice from my last boss:

"Open the yellow pages, go to electrical companies, start calling companies with names that start with A and then finish at companies names that start with Z. "

His advice has worked many times for me, and im happy to report I never went past the letter "H".

I know you will find a place to apprentice if you are a hard worker.

good luck!

elecnoob · 05-01-2012, 08:46 PM

How willing are companies to take a chance on a total newbie like myself? Alot of resumes I've been sending out ( via email ) have netted me zip in callbacks or interviews.

If what I read above is correct, I don't need to take a pre-apprenticeship? I'd rather not spend the thousands of dollars to do that ( I don't have it to begin with ).

Does anyone know of a electric company hiring in Vancouver that would be willing to take on a total new guy? I'm a hard worker, just need a chance.

troubleshooting · 05-01-2012, 09:40 PM

So here is the advice I can give someone looking for a job in the electrical field.

1). Put your name on the list for an electrical course

Now you have 2 years to find a job before you go to school, if you haven't found a job.

2). If you don't need money right away, start calling contractors. You might find someone willing to spend thousands of dollars of his own time to teach you the basics. Or you might get hired on as a shop guy, cleaning, fetching and carrying, picking up orders at the wholesaler, painting and just generally doing all the cr*p no one else wants to do.

You might get a chance to be an apprentice if you don't quit and they figure you have earned it.

3). If you need the money right away...get a job at a wholesaler. They always seem to need people and typically the pay is not bad (not as good as an electrician). Now you can learn about the equipment and typically they give their employees a certain amount of training each year in the electrical field.

When you are working the counter you can see whose company has lots of work, based on how much material they buy. AND you can meet some of the bosses and electricians and see who might be good to work for and who is a complete a**hole.

Watch yourself out there. There are quite a few crooked contractors. I have been told all kinds of horror stories by former student. "He told me if I paid for my meals and hotel when we worked out of town he reimburse me later, he didn't". "He told me to bank the overtime so I could get it later and then lost the record of my time". "He wouldn't pay overtime.". "He didn't pay the rate" "I worked for him for 6 months and he never did sign me up as an apprentice". I could go on.

Someone in the Vancouver area is missing out in not going to BCIT. I know 2 of the electrical instructors there. They are great guys that would teach you a lot. As a former PE electrical instructor we would also warn our students which contractors had bad reputations and not to apply there.

Usually I got called before the course would end by contractors wanting to scoop the best students.

CheapCharlie · 05-01-2012, 10:35 PM

I work for Manitoba Hydro. What about that route? Great job, excellent pay, paid training. Will hire green off the street. It's union (IBEW). And having the math/physics background is a must for the program. Shoot me a PM and i can give you more details.

troubleshooting · 05-01-2012, 11:00 PM

I can't complain about MB Hydro. I work there too. Note my Gillam location.

CheapCharlie · 05-01-2012, 11:03 PM

LOL...that's where I am too. Gillam.

troubleshooting · 05-01-2012, 11:06 PM

Stop by the Radisson Training Center and I'll buy you a coffee.

Ask anyone where "Larry" is.