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Old 01-11-2017, 11:04 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Byte View Post
I finally found the answer you need from Appendix B:
Neutral
By definition, a neutral conductor of a circuit requires at least three conductors in that circuit. However, in the trade, the term “neutral conductor” is commonly applied to the conductor of a 2-wire circuit that is connected to a conductor grounded at the supply end. Care should therefore be taken in the use of this term when applying
the Code.
4-026 is written for three or four wire circuits, not two wire circuits.
Interesting, but I'm too stubborn to start calling it the grounded conductor!
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:31 PM   #62
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You should have a neutral or means to get one for future use.

Sent from my SM-J700P using Tapatalk
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:27 PM   #63
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General contractors really don't care if there is a neutral in the switch boxes it increases the cost to them.
BAD general contractors don't care! Working with a good GC is key.

During tough economic times, BAD GCs seem to be everywhere.

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Last edited by Borgi; 01-12-2017 at 01:30 PM. Reason: Added clarity, bad gc
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:36 PM   #64
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I always run power through the switchbox and end the wire in the lighting fixture. Makes it easier for me.
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Old 01-12-2017, 02:30 PM   #65
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I always have neutral in every switch box, except when I don't.
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Old 01-12-2017, 08:00 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borgi View Post
GOOD general contractors do things to code Working with a good GC is key.

During tough economic times, GOOD GCs seem to not do extras.

Borgi
fify

p.s. If something is missing from our code, we really shouldn't blame it on the GC

Technically, he could put a bathroom GFCI as the 12th outlet
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:26 PM   #67
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Do you know where I can find the rule? Thanks for your help.
Use of identified conductors
4-036(2). Where armoured cable, aluminum sheathed cable, copper sheathed cable or non metallic sheathed cable containing an identified conductor is used for single-pole, three way or four way switch loops, it shall not be nessesary to render the identified conductor permanently unidentified at the switch if the connections are made so that an unidentified conductor is the return conductor from the switch to the outlet.

There is no code that says we must have an identified conductor at every switch box.......yet.
Of course if the device your installing requires one then you would need to install one.
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Last edited by eddy current; 01-12-2017 at 09:33 PM.
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:40 PM   #68
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Use of identified conductors
4-036(2). .
I like that. It's an indirect way of "proving" that a neutral at switches
isn't required by code. Other than indirectly, how else would one
prove something doesn't exist?
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:10 PM   #69
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The CEC doesn't require we use green marrettes when connecting bond wires, like the NEC apparently does, either.

So far!

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Old 01-16-2017, 10:22 AM   #70
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Submitted this question to the ESA, particularly for clarification of 4-028.
Find the Q and A below.
P&L


Incident: 12-25-1531 has been Responded to.

Topic: Wiring & Wiring Methods
Category: Conductors
Subject: clarification of 4-028

Question:

Hello,
It's common practice to wire switches, especially
3-wasy, without a neutral at each switch location.
4-028 could be taken to mean that this is not allowed.
Please clarify the intent of 4-028 in general
and specifically whether it, or any other rule,
requires a neutral at every switch location.
Thank You.

Answer:

--- (AskESA) 1/16/2017 9:15:41 AM
Rule 4-028 of the Ontario Electrical Safety Code specifies "how" a neutral conductor must be installed "when" it is required. If the neutral conductor is not required, which may be in the case of a light switch, this rule would not apply. However, if the wiring is such that the neutral is brought into the light switch box, it must be installed per the requirements of this rule.

Reference is to the Ontario Electrical Safety Code 26th Edition/2015



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Old 01-16-2017, 06:47 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borgi View Post
The CEC doesn't require we use green marrettes when connecting bond wires, like the NEC apparently does, either.

So far!

Borgi
No such requirement in the NEC. Where'd you get that idea?
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Old 02-02-2017, 02:51 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borgi View Post
Key phrase, " requires a neutral conductor ".

Borgi

Good eye! I was reading the rule this morning. I'm not planning on running a neutral out to a 3-way switch that is all on its own which already has a 14/3 connected to it.

According to the official CEC 2015 hand book under Rule 4-036 even shows a the switch legs on a 3 wire circuit with no extra neutral in the diagram.

Last edited by 746 Watts; 02-02-2017 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 02-02-2017, 02:57 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emtnut View Post

If someone changes to a fancy programmable dimmer ... then now they need the noodle ... someone has to install one
Oooooh right. Forgot about that....

However, there will be a neutral at one end of a 3-way, where the power feeds in to it.

Dimmers, even the fancy ones, can only have a dimmer at one end of the chain as far as I know from the ones I've installed. Maybe that will change one day.

But 2 wire switch legs, yeah, won't work on a fancy dimmer. Needs that neutral.

Last edited by 746 Watts; 02-02-2017 at 02:58 PM. Reason: forgot something
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