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Old 03-09-2017, 06:21 AM   #1
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Default Solar ROI

From another thread, figured I'd pull it out rather than hijack:

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Originally Posted by Suncoast Power View Post
I think I would need about 30 or more panels 2x15 for it to give me enough ROI to make it worth it.
So, where do you hop on?
It's going to take 10 years to pay off and with that, the efficiency of the panels will increase.
I am just curious. Whenever I see the ROI calculations from the solar sales people, they assume that once it's in it's basically zero maintenance and lasts forever.

Did they figure in the life span of the inverter for you? I don't know how expensive the ones they use for solar but IME even good ones don't last forever.

Are the panels supposed to be permanent and maintenance free? Outside of wind damage etc.
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Old 03-09-2017, 06:28 AM   #2
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My 'beef' with PV: it needs to be installed where local conditions are IDEAL.

That means, pretty much, New Mexico.

Ideal weather, ideal climate... a Davis Bacon install. ( TVA, BPA scale projects )

Roof top PV is a sci-fi fantasy.

Too many roof falls.

Too many roof leaks.

Economically, PV power 'blew up Europe.'

{ It bankrupted Spain... and put a huge hole in Germany's finances. }

{ The Spanish government contracted for PV power -- at $0.58 per kWHr. (!!!!!)

{Wholesale.}

This bleeding brought down the government, and the nation.

Don Quixote, indeed.
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Old 03-09-2017, 06:29 AM   #3
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One huge ROI factor is what local poco's grant $KWH net metering.

IIRC, legislation passed some 40 yrs ago stating they had to buy back, yet set no %.....

~CS~
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Old 03-09-2017, 06:51 AM   #4
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Web search produced this:

What Is the Lifespan of a Solar Panel? Photovoltaic (PV) modules typically come with 20 year warranties that guarantee that the panels will produce at least 80% of the rated power after 20 years of use. The general rule of thumb is that panels will degrade by about 1% each year.Apr 20, 2014


And this:

A solar PV system is said to have a lifespan of around 25 years. However, same is not the case with the solar inverters. Most inverters come with a life-expectancy of ten years. Although the estimated lifespan of solar inverters is ten years, there are cases where inverters have lasted for 20 years or more. Most inverters require regular maintenance in order to ensure that they are working efficiently; inverters sometimes do require repair. Any malfunctioning of the inverters can cause complete shutdown of the PV system. When that happens, neither usable power is generated nor is there any return on customer investment. Inverters typically get replaced after ten years, and the replacements costs can be significant – sometimes up to 10% of the total capital cost for the project. Factors Affecting the Lifespan of Inverters A PV inverter comprises of passive components like capacitors, inductors and also electromechanical devices like relays and switches. They are complex, mechanical devices which comprise the major portion of maintenance expenditure related to PV systems. They are prone to environmental stressors irrespective of whether they are located indoors or outdoors. Several factors can affect the life of inverters. High ambient temperatures deter the performance of inverters. Hence care should be taken regarding the positioning of inverters. Moreover voltage fluctuations and low grid power quality can adversely affect the life span of inverters. To increase the longevity of inverters, it should be ensured that they remain clean and do not overheat. A quarterly inspection no them for visual signs of damage and to verify that the air and fan grills are free from dirt can make a difference to the life expectancy of inverters. Subscribe to FREE Solar Mango Newsletter - News and Opinions on Implementing Solar
Read more at: http://www.solarmango.com/ask/2015/0...lar-inverters/
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Old 03-09-2017, 07:38 AM   #5
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It's -24 here this morning. I'm content to be hooked up to dependable natural gas and power. No solar BS for me.
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Old 03-10-2017, 09:46 AM   #6
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First thing that comes to my mind is how much it's going to cost to reroof the building with all that solar equipment up there.
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Old 03-12-2017, 09:25 AM   #7
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One of the topics that I never really hear about when determining the ROI for solar is the actual cost of electricity being purchased. Everybody always seems to talk about the generation side, but never talks about the “offset”. So in a place like Ontario where energy costs (specifically electricity) are a big issue, they may be more desire to offset costs (net metering) vice generate (MicroFIT) and sell back to the utility. Now a place like Quebec, electricity is far less expensive then Ontario, so the offset option may not be as attractive.

Cheers
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Old 03-12-2017, 10:09 AM   #8
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So this is only anecdotal, so take it for what it's worth: Guy I know owns
a kitchen cupboard fabricate/install company. He says he has 4 houses
each with 10kW solar (I've seen the one on the house he lives in). Says
they each cost between $22 and $30K and the payout is $5 to $10K per
year, per system. Microfit program here in Ontario pays much more for
generation than consumers pay. The amount they're paying has been
dropping since microfit was introduced. Atleast one of his houses is on
one of the earliest rates, which will be in effect for 20yrs.
P&L
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Old 03-12-2017, 03:37 PM   #9
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If the market here was legislated to pay out more for generation than usage, i'd definitely have more interest in the NABCEP Plugs....

~CS~
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Old 03-12-2017, 08:04 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlugsAndLights View Post
So this is only anecdotal, so take it for what it's worth: Guy I know owns
a kitchen cupboard fabricate/install company. He says he has 4 houses
each with 10kW solar (I've seen the one on the house he lives in). Says
they each cost between $22 and $30K and the payout is $5 to $10K per
year, per system
. Microfit program here in Ontario pays much more for
generation than consumers pay. The amount they're paying has been
dropping since microfit was introduced. Atleast one of his houses is on
one of the earliest rates, which will be in effect for 20yrs.
P&L
So you're talking subsidies, then ?
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:34 PM   #11
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In Alberta, Canada this month, they are rolling out 30% rebate on residential solar installations. So home owner buys panels and they get Provincial funding for 30% up to 11,000$. The catch is they require you to have a certified electrician do the tie in.

Commercial is around 25%.
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Old 03-20-2017, 02:04 PM   #12
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Related question: Gather that an engineer of some sort needs to sign off
on structures ability to support the load. Anyone know more about this?
Wondering about typical price, whether most places pass w/o upgrading,
if all NA jurisdictions require this, and any direct experience with this part
of it.
P&L
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:09 PM   #13
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You don't need engineer unless Its high wind/high snow. Most distributors have dead load calculators for their assembled products.
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Old 03-20-2017, 05:25 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlugsAndLights View Post
Related question: Gather that an engineer of some sort needs to sign off
on structures ability to support the load. Anyone know more about this?
Wondering about typical price, whether most places pass w/o upgrading,
if all NA jurisdictions require this, and any direct experience with this part
of it.
P&L
My experience is that this is insurance driven and not CBC or OBC driven. The weight of a typical 10Kw MicroFIT is less then a layer of standard shingles. While there is a potential issue with shear I have not come across it yet. Most residential clients send the specs to their insurance companies and unless they ask for something it is a non-issue.

Cheers

John
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Old 05-27-2017, 04:30 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlugsAndLights View Post
Related question: Gather that an engineer of some sort needs to sign off
on structures ability to support the load. Anyone know more about this?
Wondering about typical price, whether most places pass w/o upgrading,
if all NA jurisdictions require this, and any direct experience with this part
of it.
P&L
I know this is an old thread but I've run into this here in Texas. They want to know that roof structure can withstand winds up to 90mph for 3 seconds, and in September 115mph for 3 seconds. That's probably for both uplift and downforce. I need an on-site inspection from a licensed structural engineer in my town. No exceptions.
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Old 05-27-2017, 05:02 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TGGT View Post
I know this is an old thread but I've run into this here in Texas. They want to know that roof structure can withstand winds up to 90mph for 3 seconds, and in September 115mph for 3 seconds. That's probably for both uplift and downforce. I need an on-site inspection from a licensed structural engineer in my town. No exceptions.
Another reason to go this way.
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Old 05-27-2017, 05:05 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by backstay View Post
Another reason to go this way.
How many KW is that panel is rated for ?
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Old 05-27-2017, 05:07 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by backstay View Post
Another reason to go this way.
Does that have a tracker? I put some consideration into a pole mount but the further we get from the house, the more shade there is in our backyard. We do have an old 20-25' utility pole back there I thought would be useful.

I'm still trying to price out what a system would cost on my roof.

BTW did you get my PM?
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Old 05-27-2017, 05:11 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TGGT View Post
I know this is an old thread but I've run into this here in Texas. They want to know that roof structure can withstand winds up to 90mph for 3 seconds, and in September 115mph for 3 seconds. That's probably for both uplift and downforce. I need an on-site inspection from a licensed structural engineer in my town. No exceptions.
To answer your PM, here is what I use. And the picture you get from it. It figures the shading for you. If you look close at the bottom left you will see red, thats the software calculating shade.
http://burndyweb.com/wiley/ASSET.html

I thought it would be better with pictures.
Attached Images
  
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Old 05-27-2017, 05:35 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeFL View Post
First thing that comes to my mind is how much it's going to cost to reroof the building with all that solar equipment up there.
The install I saw here was pretty basic.
It took the guys an hour or so to install two sets of brackets and set the panels.
I asked about re-roofing and what they do is come out, collect the panels and brackets and the. Re-install.
This was asphalt shingles.
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