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Old 03-29-2016, 04:42 PM   #1
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Default Thermal Solar an Epic Bust

http://dailysignal.com/2016/03/29/ta...t-doesnt-work/

2016/03/29/taxpayers-are-footing-bill-for-solar-project-that-doesnt-work/

Here’s the story so far, Ivanpah:
  • Is owned by Google, NRG Energy, and Brightsource, who have a market cap in excess of $500 billion
  • Received $1.6 billion in loan guarantees from the Department of Energy
  • Is paid four to five times as much per megawatt-hour as natural-gas powered plants
  • Is paid two to three times as much per megawatt-hour as other solar power producers
  • Has burned thousands of birds to death
  • Has delayed loan repayments
  • Is seeking over $500 million in grants to help pay off the guaranteed loans
  • Burns natural gas for 4.5 hours each morning to get its mojo going
&&&&&&&


The only solar power scheme that really works is PV arrays.


As for this project: it's pure crony capitalism.


Google is in bed with this Administration -- everywhere you turn.
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Old 03-29-2016, 05:03 PM   #2
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A story came out of Ontario where some dude was getting paid 80 cents per KWh for returning power to the grid from his rooftop units. That guy knows how to play it! And the tree huggers just gobbled it up.
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Old 03-29-2016, 07:57 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by telsa View Post
http://dailysignal.com/2016/03/29/ta...t-doesnt-work/

2016/03/29/taxpayers-are-footing-bill-for-solar-project-that-doesnt-work/

Here’s the story so far, Ivanpah:
  • Is owned by Google, NRG Energy, and Brightsource, who have a market cap in excess of $500 billion
  • Received $1.6 billion in loan guarantees from the Department of Energy
  • Is paid four to five times as much per megawatt-hour as natural-gas powered plants
  • Is paid two to three times as much per megawatt-hour as other solar power producers
  • Has burned thousands of birds to death
  • Has delayed loan repayments
  • Is seeking over $500 million in grants to help pay off the guaranteed loans
  • Burns natural gas for 4.5 hours each morning to get its mojo going
&&&&&&&


The only solar power scheme that really works is PV arrays.


As for this project: it's pure crony capitalism.


Google is in bed with this Administration -- everywhere you turn.
Sound like somebody made out like a bandit.
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Old 03-29-2016, 09:09 PM   #4
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You'd think the brains at Google would've gone for PV arrays, instead.

The ideal scheme would be to locate a massive array in the high desert of New Mexico.

You have almost ideal conditions for collecting rays, dirt cheap desert, ... and do so in scale.

0bama can't take any lessons from FDR.
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Old 03-29-2016, 09:31 PM   #5
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Quote:
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A story came out of Ontario where some dude was getting paid 80 cents per KWh for returning power to the grid from his rooftop units. That guy knows how to play it! And the tree huggers just gobbled it up.
Yup, I think 81.3 cents is actually what it was. Had one on my house until I sold last August. The original microFIT contracts were a dream. Unfortunately, the average homebuyer just sees panels on their roof and thinks their roof is gonna leak, and the house is gonna burn down...couldn't find a single buyer that saw the value, ended up basically giving the solar system and contract away.
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Old 03-29-2016, 09:42 PM   #6
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Sure glad I took a pass on that one. They did most of the construction in the middle of the summer. I'm allergic to heat stroke.
They should open up a roadside restaurant, and call it "Freddy's fast flash fried flying fowl". And serve it on mirrored plates.

Last edited by joebanana; 03-29-2016 at 09:45 PM.
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Old 03-30-2016, 02:09 PM   #7
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Sure glad I took a pass on that one. They did most of the construction in the middle of the summer. I'm allergic to heat stroke.
They should open up a roadside restaurant, and call it "Freddy's fast flash fried flying fowl". And serve it on mirrored plates.

It smells like the designers screwed up the heat sink// cooling system required for every thermal energy power plant.

Near as I can tell, the location is hotter than blazes straight through the Summer.

So their condensers would have to be both huge and mighty hot -- say 90 C.

The location and concept is a total dud.
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Old 03-30-2016, 02:35 PM   #8
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You guys just want dirty air.
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Old 03-30-2016, 06:28 PM   #9
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What would have been surprising is if the Heritage Foundation had anything
good to say about any energy source that wasn't coal or something similarly
polluting.
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Old 03-30-2016, 06:53 PM   #10
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What would have been surprising is if the Heritage Foundation had anything
good to say about any energy source that wasn't coal or something similarly
polluting.
Heritage Foundation? You lost me there.

I don't think I would call solar power nonpolluting.
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Old 03-30-2016, 07:01 PM   #11
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Heritage Foundation? You lost me there.

I don't think I would call solar power nonpolluting.
The author of the article in the link is with the Heritage Foundation.
Read the bit below his picture. They're a right wing think tank.

As for solar being nonpolluting, well, I haven't seen an energy source
yet that didn't have significant down sides. Some more than others.
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Old 03-30-2016, 07:09 PM   #12
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Dave Kreutzer

~CS~
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Old 03-30-2016, 08:03 PM   #13
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The author of the article in the link is with the Heritage Foundation.
Read the bit below his picture. They're a right wing think tank.

As for solar being nonpolluting, well, I haven't seen an energy source
yet that didn't have significant down sides. Some more than others.
The process to make the PV cells is dirty, the process to make the aluminum for the frames and mounts is also dirty. The process to connect the cells(soldering) is dirty. Same with wind turbines. Hydro power has detrimental effects on rivers. They may be renewable, but they aren't clean.
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Old 03-30-2016, 08:11 PM   #14
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The process to make the PV cells is dirty, the process to make the aluminum for the frames and mounts is also dirty. The process to connect the cells(soldering) is dirty. Same with wind turbines. Hydro power has detrimental effects on rivers. They may be renewable, but they aren't clean.
Yep. But it's still miles better than coal.
Google coal mining appalachian mountains.
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Old 03-30-2016, 11:18 PM   #15
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Yep. But it's still miles better than coal.
Google coal mining appalachian mountains.
Our coal is mined in fields, not mountains. That said, I get my electricity from God and my heat from trees.
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Old 03-31-2016, 07:24 AM   #16
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And i understand you're well hidden from the oilocracy too ,eh Backstay? ~CS~
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Old 06-15-2016, 12:28 PM   #17
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Yup, I think 81.3 cents is actually what it was. Had one on my house until I sold last August. The original microFIT contracts were a dream. Unfortunately, the average homebuyer just sees panels on their roof and thinks their roof is gonna leak, and the house is gonna burn down...couldn't find a single buyer that saw the value, ended up basically giving the solar system and contract away.
Now I can see the advantage of using bi-facial panels such as Sunpream or ones sold by solar home to create patio covers gazebos and covering for parking, just look at the ones Lumos makes. We might as well but a little art to work here. If you have natural gas look into using it for generator. you can always capture the CO2 and put it into a buried tank to use in heat pumps, for cooling and hot water as well as bringing in fresh air for your cloths drier and heating it, without bringing in more hot air that you pay to have cooled in the summer. The Federal Government meaning of freedom is for the rich to use free enterprise to put the yoke of oppression on the rest of us. The Magna Carta died with the end of Jeffersonian Democracy. Last chance is rural co-op since are cities are incorporated.
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