210.52(E) outdoor rec - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum

leland · 04-03-2010, 09:53 AM

So technically is this to code? (just on a kick lately-review time ya know) never gave this much thought.

1 and 2 family homes,you need an outside rec,ACCESSIBLE While STANDING at grade level.

you have the front door,and a 8' porch. The rec is placed to the left of the door.

Does this meet the requirement?

**480sparky** · 04-03-2010, 10:01 AM

Uh, is the recep accessible?

Bob Badger · 04-03-2010, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leland

So technically is this to code? (just on a kick lately-review time ya know) never gave this much thought.

1 and 2 family homes,you need an outside rec,ACCESSIBLE While STANDING at grade level.

you have the front door,and a 8' porch. The rec is placed to the left of the door.

Does this meet the requirement?

Sure for people with 8' arms.

**Dennis Alwon** · 04-03-2010, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leland

So technically is this to code? (just on a kick lately-review time ya know) never gave this much thought.

1 and 2 family homes,you need an outside rec,ACCESSIBLE While STANDING at grade level.

you have the front door,and a 8' porch. The rec is placed to the left of the door.

Does this meet the requirement?

Is the recep. accessible from grade level-- not the deck-?

When you say "8' deck" I am assuming you are not talking about the height off grade.

If you can stand on grade and plug a cord into the recep. and it's not over 6'6" above grade, then you are good to go-- of course, this could be interpreted differently depending on the inspector.

leland · 04-03-2010, 10:14 AM

Standard front porch,8' deep,nice railings and posts.

**480sparky** · 04-03-2010, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leland

Standard front porch,8' deep,nice railings and posts.

Betcha it looks nice from the street. So where is the recep located?

william1978 · 04-03-2010, 10:17 AM

I would say no. I don't think you would be able to reach it from grade. I have seen rec placed so that it will take care of the rec on the porch and the one accessible from grade.

leland · 04-03-2010, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 480sparky

Betcha it looks nice from the street. So where is the recep located?

Yes it does,and the Irisis are starting to bud.

Rec just to the left of the door,so one can plug in a radio or something.

**480sparky** · 04-03-2010, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leland

Yes it does,and the Irisis are starting to bud.

Rec just to the left of the door,so one can plug in a radio or something.

Left of the door. Check.

How high off the floor?

leland · 04-03-2010, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 480sparky

Left of the door. Check.

How high off the floor?

18"-

**Dennis Alwon** · 04-03-2010, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leland

Yes it does,and the Irisis are starting to bud.

Rec just to the left of the door,so one can plug in a radio or something.

That is a great convenience receptacle but it does not appear the recep. will fulfill the requirements of 210.52(E).

Remember grade is grade level not deck level. If you can stand on grade and plug it in then you are probably good to go.

**480sparky** · 04-03-2010, 10:53 AM

So porches and decks aren't 'grade levels'? "Grade" only applies to dirt and grass?

What about driveways and sidewalks? If my POCO cash register is required to be 4-6' 'above grade', I can't install it over a sidewalk or driveway because there's no dirt to stand on?

Suppose there's a 6x6 PVC box buried under the grass (no dirt, just grass!)? Is that 'grade'? 6c6 PVC boxes can't be buried below exterior receps because that would cause the recep to fall outside the requirement of 510.52(E)?

Sorry, I'll say the front porch floor, regardless of the material it's made of, is grade.

nolabama · 04-03-2010, 11:00 AM

We use 480's description of grade to justify raised meter heights and raised switch heights for services in flood prone area's 'round here. My question would be is the deck under the outlet, not dirt/aka grade? If so it is compliant.

**Dennis Alwon** · 04-03-2010, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 480sparky

Sorry, I'll say the front porch floor, regardless of the material it's made of, is grade.

You are certainly free to disagree but that has long been the interpretation around here. I have never seen a landscape plan or any other plan that references decks as grade.

Correct me if I am wrong Ken but wasn't there a time when the outdoor recep was permitted from a deck as long as there was direct access to grade from the deck, ie, stairs.

The NEC 2008 has specifically added the words accessible while standing at grade level-- fwiw---

**Dennis Alwon** · 04-03-2010, 11:21 AM

Here is another question for you. If you interpret that the deck is grade then when you measure the 6'6" from grade you are measuring from the deck.

Okay now the deck is 7' off grade with no stair access to ground (what I call grade). In this scenario you would allow the recep on the deck at 18" above the deck boards as satisfying 210.52(E)? I don't see it. If deck is grade, IMO you would have to accept the above scenario.

knowshorts · 04-03-2010, 01:45 PM

What if the the house is built on pillars on a lake? Is the water grade? The intent of the code was to make sure there is a receptacle near the door. Someone chose the wrong terminology, it was approved, and now people are putting pvc boxes under sod.

jwjrw · 04-03-2010, 01:48 PM

Aren't you now required in 2008 to have one on the deck AND one reachable from grade level also? Which if you are able to reach it from the ground should meet both codes.

**Dennis Alwon** · 04-03-2010, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwjrw

Aren't you now required in 2008 to have one on the deck AND one reachable from grade level also? Which if you are able to reach it from the ground should meet both codes.

In general, you are required to have one on a deck.

Quote:

210.52(E)(3) Balconies, Decks, and Porches. Balconies, decks, and porches that are accessible from inside the dwelling unit shall have at least one receptacle outlet installed within the perimeter of the balcony, deck, or porch. The receptacle shall not be located more than 2.0 m (6½ ft) above the balcony, deck, or porch surface.
Exception to (3): Balconies, decks, or porches with a usable area of less than 1.86 m2 (20 ft2) are not required to have a receptacle installed.

The argument is, simply put, what is considered grade? The deck or the ground underneath it.

**Dennis Alwon** · 04-03-2010, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knowshorts

What if the the house is built on pillars on a lake? Is the water grade? The intent of the code was to make sure there is a receptacle near the door. Someone chose the wrong terminology, it was approved, and now people are putting pvc boxes under sod.

I disagree. Where did you get the intent from? Can you substantiate that claim? 210.52(E) does not state by a door but on a deck. Why would you need it to be by the door? That is often a bad spot IMO.

jwjrw · 04-03-2010, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon

In general, you are required to have one on a deck.

The argument is, simply put, what is considered grade? The deck or the ground underneath it.

I say grade is ground level(dirt). A deck is ABOVE grade. Always has been here. I believe the new deck requirement is in addition to the regular outside receps.