250.52 and 53 - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum

Magnettica · 10-02-2009, 10:00 PM

250.52 Grounding Electrodes.
(A) Electrodes Permitted for Grounding.
(1) Metal Underground Water Pipe. A metal under-
ground water pipe in direct contact with the earth for 3.0 m
(10 ft) or more (including any metal well casing effectively
bonded to the pipe) and electrically continuous (or made
electrically continuous by bonding around insulating joints
or insulating pipe) to the points of connection of the
grounding electrode conductor and the bonding conductors.
Interior metal water piping located more than 1.52 m (5 ft)
from the point of entrance to the building shall not be used
as a part of the grounding electrode system or as a conduc-
tor to interconnect electrodes that are part of the grounding
electrode system.

(D) Metal Underground Water Pipe. Where used as a
grounding electrode, metal underground water pipe shall
meet the requirements of 250.53(D)(1) and (D)(2).
(1) Continuity. Continuity of the grounding path or the
bonding connection to interior piping shall not rely on wa-
ter meters or ﬁltering devices and similar equipment.

Inspector failed a job I did because he said I did not bond to the supply side of the water meter first before jumping to the other side. Does that seem like a violation to you? It doesn't to me but I digress...

This guy also noted that my #6 copper from ground #1 to ground rod #2 needs to be buried in the ground, not securely attached to the foundation of a dwelling.

This guy nuts or is it just me?

cmec · 10-02-2009, 10:51 PM

You would get gigged for both things where I live.

william1978 · 10-02-2009, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmec

You would get gigged for both things where I live.

If I'm understanding him correctly the samething would happen here also.

Black4Truck · 10-02-2009, 11:16 PM

We have to bond on both sides when there is a "U" shaped bracket on the water line

There are rubber bushings where the meter connects from supply side to house side

That what he is talking about?

I just read that again and it seems he wants the water pipe to still be bonded if the water meter is disconnected?? THAT is nutz

sparks134 · 10-02-2009, 11:30 PM

perfectly normal, where I come from!!!

Mr. Sparkle · 10-02-2009, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnettica

Inspector failed a job I did because he said I did not bond to the supply side of the water meter first before jumping to the other side. Does that seem like a violation to you? It doesn't to me but I digress...

This guy also noted that my #6 copper from ground #1 to ground rod #2 needs to be buried in the ground, not securely attached to the foundation of a dwelling.

This guy nuts or is it just me?

I've been called on both in the past, and had an inspector advise me to strip the jacket off the #6 between the rods before burying it......

, just saying.

Celtic · 10-02-2009, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black4Truck

I just read that again and it seems he wants the water pipe to still be bonded if the water meter is disconnected?? THAT is nutz

Why?

Black4Truck · 10-02-2009, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celtic

Why?

Because the #6 is still connected to the clamp even if the water meter is missing

Celtic · 10-03-2009, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black4Truck

Because the #6 is still connected to the clamp even if the water meter is missing

250.53(D)(1) requires it.

Why is that the service uses both a #6 & a #4?
Does it matter if the #6 goes to the rod or the meter?
Why or why not?

sparks134 · 10-03-2009, 12:24 AM

200 A service is #4 GEC to water pipe, #6 to ground rod.
100 A service is #8 GEC to water pipe , #8 to ground rod.

Magnettica · 10-03-2009, 12:33 AM

The inspectors thoughts were that the H20 bond should land on the first 5' feet first in case they ever want to change out the meter the underground portion still has a bond with the grounded service conductor.

Celtic · 10-03-2009, 12:35 AM

Sparks....the service in question is a 200A

sparks134 · 10-03-2009, 12:36 AM

yep! thats exactly why!

sparks134 · 10-03-2009, 12:50 AM

#6 goes to rod!!!

macmikeman · 10-03-2009, 01:17 AM

The part about having to put the bonding jumper in the ground and not attached to the whatever it got attached to is pure crap. (not your crap, the inspectors crap). Figgin current doesn't care in the least what medium it attaches to on its way to the second and rather retarded but usually required by code rod. I wish inspectors would learn to read and not try to impress us with creativity. As far as jumping a meter with a bond, we all know the code requires that, so what is the problem as I understand your post about it? Does he not want a jumper around the meter? By the way I am sure most regulars are tired of my preaching about it, but on the exterior of the building if you land the gec on the water pipe there, the 5 foot part of the sentence doesn't apply. I figure if I keep mentioning that fact sooner or later it will start sticking in the minds of the readers and then maybe it might spread far and wide and finally get to the inspection departments as it should...

Magnettica · 10-03-2009, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macmikeman

The part about having to put the bonding jumper in the ground and not attached to the whatever it got attached to is pure crap. (not your crap, the inspectors crap). Figgin current doesn't care in the least what medium it attaches to on its way to the second and rather retarded but usually required by code rod. I wish inspectors would learn to read and not try to impress us with creativity. As far as jumping a meter with a bond, we all know the code requires that, so what is the problem as I understand your post about it? Does he not want a jumper around the meter? By the way I am sure most regulars are tired of my preaching about it, but on the exterior of the building if you land the gec on the water pipe there, the 5 foot part of the sentence doesn't apply. I figure if I keep mentioning that fact sooner or later it will start sticking in the minds of the readers and then maybe it might spread far and wide and finally get to the inspection departments as it should...

The inspector of course wants both sides of the meter jumped, but wants the supply side bonded first so if the "load side" is ever repair or replaced the connection to the first 5' is there when the "load side" is likely disconnected. Electrically speaking, either way meets the requirement and the way the code is currently worded.

I'll have pictures next week.

macmikeman · 10-03-2009, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnettica

The inspector of course wants both sides of the meter jumped, but wants the supply side bonded first so if the "load side" is ever repair or replaced the connection to the first 5' is there when the "load side" is likely disconnected. Electrically speaking, either way meets the requirement and the way the code is currently worded.

I'll have pictures next week.

Got it, now I understand. What if. What if, what if, what if. I'm glad I'm not an inspector myself. I could probably not resist the complusion to become a BONE HEAD if I was...