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11-09-2009, 03:34 AM
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#21
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Not Peter D
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: South Eastern MA
Posts: 2,882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RIVETER
Exactly, and I believe that whether you have one, or three separate buildings fed from one meter, all of the feeders have to have equal size conductors... the size allowed for THAT SIZE SERVICE.
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There is no truth to that at all and again these are not feeders until they reach a service disconnect.
Quote:
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If you have a MAJOR fault on any of the three structures, it would be able to trip the overload device at the UTILITY rather than BURN open a conductor somewhere.
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You never going to 'trip the overload device at the utility' with a residential service. At best you will burn open a connection between the NEC sized conductors and the smaller utility conductors.
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11-09-2009, 12:02 PM
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#22
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,404
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Sorry gentlemen. I just returned. Yes, he does have a disconnect at both the dwelling and unattached structure. The garage feeder/service does not enter/pass through any structure.
I am glad I asked you guys as I would have expected a disconnect for the garage feeder/service. I guess I was wrong.
Its good to know this though. From now on (AHJ & POCO Approval) I could run an un-fused feeder to an unattached structure from a single meter.
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11-09-2009, 12:08 PM
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#23
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Not Peter D
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: South Eastern MA
Posts: 2,882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Valdes
From now on (AHJ & POCO Approval) I could run an un-fused feeder to an unattached structure from a single meter.
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Just don't call it a feeder becuse to the NEC it is not.
It's just service condutors ........ really long service condutors. 
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11-09-2009, 01:31 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Badger
Just don't call it a feeder becuse to the NEC it is not.
It's just service condutors ........ really long service condutors. |
Got it Bob, Thanks
Ps......Why then length limits on SE conductors? Because they enter the dwelling or structure?
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11-09-2009, 02:46 PM
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: kentucky
Posts: 1,965
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Servfice conductors/ feeders
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Badger
There is no truth to that at all and again these are not feeders until they reach a service disconnect.Okay, then what protects the WIRES, if underground, or above for that matter, between the meter and the unattached structure?
You never going to 'trip the overload device at the utility' with a residential service. At best you will burn open a connection between the NEC sized conductors and the smaller utility conductors.
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I am not a lineman but those "trippers" or whatever they are called out side, at the pole that they come to reset...what causes them to trip? I am not dissagreeing, just looking for the correct answer.
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11-09-2009, 09:13 PM
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#26
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Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RIVETER
I am not a lineman but those "trippers" or whatever they are called out side, at the pole that they come to reset...what causes them to trip? I am not dissagreeing, just looking for the correct answer.
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Mushrooms ??
__________________
Frank, Arizona,USA
It's what you learn after you know it all that counts
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11-09-2009, 09:18 PM
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#27
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: kentucky
Posts: 1,965
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Feeder-service
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benaround
Mushrooms ??
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Okay, that is what i'll call them when some asks " What's that smokin'?"
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11-09-2009, 10:11 PM
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#28
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Electrician
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 326
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Tap rules come to mind too. How far away is the garage?
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11-10-2009, 02:01 AM
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#29
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Not Peter D
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: South Eastern MA
Posts: 2,882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdr
Tap rules come to mind too. How far away is the garage?
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Tap rules are for feeders, these are not feeders.
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11-10-2009, 02:08 AM
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#30
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Not Peter D
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 5,354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Badger
Tap rules are for feeders, these are not feeders.
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Somehow I don't think that point is being communicated. 
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11-10-2009, 02:21 AM
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#31
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Not Peter D
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: South Eastern MA
Posts: 2,882
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Failure to communicate
Last edited by Bob Badger; 11-10-2009 at 06:14 AM.
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11-10-2009, 02:52 AM
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#32
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Valdes
I have come across what I believe to be a violation. But the HO's inspector has approved the installation.
The HO purchased single to two cable lugs (adapters) for his meter. He has used one set for the house and the other set for an unattached garage. He has also pulled a 3 wire feeder. No disconnect for the feeder or unattached structure. The garage is unattached and he has it connected like a service panel. His inspector has approved it. He is on the 2008 code cycle. Feedback appreciated.
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John:
Please supply some pictures of this installation, or identify the product name and type of meter socket enclosure that we can see by searching for that catalog. You may also want to take a look at NEC Article 312 in the NEC and NECH where wire bending space is covered there.
Also please find any so called adapters that are listed and labeled to be used per 110.3(B) to add another load side termination as described.
I believe that you have discovered something that needs a bit more research and review before accepting this installation.
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11-10-2009, 03:39 AM
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#33
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Not Peter D
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: South Eastern MA
Posts: 2,882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Tedesco
John:
Please supply some pictures of this installation, or identify the product name and type of meter socket enclosure that we can see by searching for that catalog. You may also want to take a look at NEC Article 312 in the NEC and NECH where wire bending space is covered there.
Also please find any so called adapters that are listed and labeled to be used per 110.3(B) to add another load side termination as described.
I believe that you have discovered something that needs a bit more research and review before accepting this installation. |
You may also want to research 90.2(B)(5) which keeps the NEC out of the meter socket. 
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11-10-2009, 04:35 AM
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#34
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 314
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On another note and with my personal and humbled opinion!
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Valdes
I have come across what I believe to be a violation. But the HO's inspector has approved the installation.
The HO purchased single to two cable lugs (adapters) for his meter. He has used one set for the house and the other set for an unattached garage. He has also pulled a 3 wire feeder. No disconnect for the feeder or unattached structure. The garage is unattached and he has it connected like a service panel. His inspector has approved it. He is on the 2008 code cycle. Feedback appreciated.
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John:
On another note and with my personal and humbled opinion; the conductors that are passing through the meter socket enclosure from the line to the load shall be considered as SEC's; the meter socket enclosure is only a cash register and these load side SEC's will only become a feeder when they have passed through an OCPD. 
The fact that the conductors you describe are connected in the way you describe makes it crystal clear that they are not feeders!
Take a look here and pick out the equipment you see for us to be sure of what we are discussing here. 
Please tell me where this work was done and what official inspected it so that we can be sure that the person who made this inspection is a qualified person who is properly trained and can wear the hat of an AHJ and is not some political hack! 
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11-10-2009, 10:50 AM
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#35
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Licensed Journeyman
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: third world
Posts: 1,610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Badger
Tap rules are for feeders, these are not feeders.
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Hell guys I even understand this difference
__________________
“Dammit, Smithers, this isn’t rocket science, it’s brain surgery!”
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11-10-2009, 11:35 AM
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#36
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,404
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I have no pictures or any evidence of compliance or non-compliance as I got this question from another forum. I am satisfied with the responses and I will consider this matter finished. Thanks very much to everyone.
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11-10-2009, 11:42 AM
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#37
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Tedesco
John:
On another note and with my personal and humbled opinion; the conductors that are passing through the meter socket enclosure from the line to the load shall be considered as SEC's; the meter socket enclosure is only a cash register and these load side SEC's will only become a feeder when they have passed through an OCPD.
The fact that the conductors you describe are connected in the way you describe makes it crystal clear that they are not feeders!
Take a look here and pick out the equipment you see for us to be sure of what we are discussing here.
Please tell me where this work was done and what official inspected it so that we can be sure that the person who made this inspection is a qualified person who is properly trained and can wear the hat of an AHJ and is not some political hack! |
Joe. I wanted to PM you, but you do not have that function turned on. Thanks.
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11-10-2009, 02:03 PM
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#38
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Northern California
Posts: 208
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What do you mean you can't tap on the line side. If you tap on the load side it will go thru the meter and you'll have to pay for what you use. That would cost the HO. Tapped to the line side would be free. FREE is better. Until you get caught.
David SSE
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11-10-2009, 07:39 PM
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#39
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Electrician
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Valdes
I have come across what I believe to be a violation. But the HO's inspector has approved the installation.
The HO purchased single to two cable lugs (adapters) for his meter. He has used one set for the house and the other set for an unattached garage. He has also pulled a 3 wire feeder. No disconnect for the feeder or unattached structure. The garage is unattached and he has it connected like a service panel. His inspector has approved it. He is on the 2008 code cycle. Feedback appreciated.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Badger
Tap rules are for feeders, these are not feeders.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter D
Somehow I don't think that point is being communicated. |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Badger
Failure to communicate
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Am I missing something???? 
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11-10-2009, 07:42 PM
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#40
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child please.....
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Hack City, USA aka New Orleans
Posts: 2,894
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He doesn't have a feeder. It's service conductors.
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