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11-28-2008, 08:41 AM
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#1
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Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 27
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GFI to Pool Panel
I am pricing a pool wire. Pool equipment consists of four cord connected 1 HP pumps & a pool lite. I would like to GFCI the feeder & not use GFCI breakers for the pumps. I would install a GFCI breaker in the panel for the pool lite. Is this a OK install?
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11-28-2008, 08:48 AM
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#2
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NY State
Posts: 3,345
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Other than a possible convenience issue there is no problem with it.
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11-28-2008, 11:27 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hackettstown, NJ
Posts: 303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparks 1942
I am pricing a pool wire. Pool equipment consists of four cord connected 1 HP pumps & a pool lite. I would like to GFCI the feeder & not use GFCI breakers for the pumps. I would install a GFCI breaker in the panel for the pool lite. Is this a OK install?
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GFCI protected is GFCI protected.
If you're under 2008NEC, this will save you a LOT of money.
If you're still under 2005, you just need to GFCI the light.
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11-28-2008, 11:34 AM
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#4
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NY State
Posts: 3,345
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Heel, even under 2005 the motors need to be GFI protected. It's hardwired motors under 2005 that are exempt from GFI protection. This exemption was removed in 2008.
Personally I would not have any piece of pool equipment not GFI protected.
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11-28-2008, 12:42 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Delmarva, USA
Posts: 600
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Personally, I would stay away from GFCI feeder protection, since when something trips it out, the whole she-bang goes dead. 
Individual GFCI breakers on each circuit makes for easier troubleshooting and less downtime when something trips it out. 
You are correct in either case, you still need branch circuit GFCI protection on the underwater lights.
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11-30-2008, 08:16 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: CT
Posts: 108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbsparky
Personally, I would stay away from GFCI feeder protection, since when something trips it out, the whole she-bang goes dead.
Individual GFCI breakers on each circuit makes for easier troubleshooting and less downtime when something trips it out.
You are correct in either case, you still need branch circuit GFCI protection on the underwater lights. |
You may get nuisance tripping if you install a GFCI breaker on an already GFI circuit.
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11-30-2008, 08:46 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Delmarva, USA
Posts: 600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a-bulb
You may get nuisance tripping if you install a GFCI breaker on an already GFI circuit.
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How do you figure?
In any case, even if you provide GFCI protection on the panel feeder, you are still required to install another GFCI device on the branch circuit supplying the underwater light.
One of the few cases where the Code requires redundant protection if you provide GFCI feeder protection.
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11-30-2008, 09:42 PM
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#8
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: California SFO bay area
Posts: 35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbsparky
How do you figure?
In any case, even if you provide GFCI protection on the panel feeder, you are still required to install another GFCI device on the branch circuit supplying the underwater light.
One of the few cases where the Code requires redundant protection if you provide GFCI feeder protection.
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The problem with a gfi downstream of a gfi is when you hit the test button they both shut off.
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11-30-2008, 10:10 PM
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#9
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NY State
Posts: 3,345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acrwc10
The problem with a gfi downstream of a gfi is when you hit the test button they both shut off.
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Not necessarily.
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11-30-2008, 10:15 PM
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#10
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NY State
Posts: 3,345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbsparky
In any case, even if you provide GFCI protection on the panel feeder, you are still required to install another GFCI device on the branch circuit supplying the underwater light.
One of the few cases where the Code requires redundant protection if you provide GFCI feeder protection.
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You are referring tot he wording in 680.32(A)(3).
I don't think redundant GFI protection was the intent here. I personally think this is just a poorly worded section.
As to the letter of the code, you are correct though.
Have you read or heard anything with regard to this "redundant GFI" issue?
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12-01-2008, 08:09 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hackettstown, NJ
Posts: 303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey
Heel, even under 2005 the motors need to be GFI protected. It's hardwired motors under 2005 that are exempt from GFI protection. This exemption was removed in 2008.
Personally I would not have any piece of pool equipment not GFI protected.
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You are correct.
Motors don't need to be GFCI's, only recepticles.
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12-01-2008, 08:15 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hackettstown, NJ
Posts: 303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey
You are referring tot he wording in 680.32(A)(3).
I don't think redundant GFI protection was the intent here. I personally think this is just a poorly worded section.
As to the letter of the code, you are correct though.
Have you read or heard anything with regard to this "redundant GFI" issue?
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Assuming you mean 680.32 B 3 (2008)....
Does a GFCI beaker not work without a neutral? I don't see how it would need a seperate device.
Hey, I could be wrong.
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12-01-2008, 08:22 PM
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#13
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Unlimited Lic.Electrician
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Charlotte N.C.
Posts: 7,702
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Would the 50a or so GFCI breaker be listed for feeder and branch circuit protection? I just curious myself on this one. I been asked this before.
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12-03-2008, 05:02 PM
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#14
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Virginia Beach Va.
Posts: 33
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When I wire pools I protect the light with a GFI rec. since you need a rec. within 20ft. of the pool, and wire pumps 220 without GFI protection 
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12-03-2008, 06:46 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Delmarva, USA
Posts: 600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by william1978
Would the 50a or so GFCI breaker be listed for feeder and branch circuit protection? I just curious myself on this one. I been asked this before.
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In most cases, yes.
The problem here is when using an underwater light, section 680.23(A)(3) requires GFCI "....shall be installed in the branch circuit supplying luminaires operating at more than 15 Volts...."
Using a GFCI in the feeder does not satisfy this requirement, since the GFCI is not installed in the branch circuit.
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12-03-2008, 07:31 PM
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#16
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NY State
Posts: 3,345
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I have no idea why that section is worded that way. Makes absolutely no sense to me.
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