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10-06-2009, 09:57 PM
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#21
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B4T Scotchkote installer
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Long Island, N.Y.
Posts: 4,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by william1978
You can't use the building steel as you GEC. I don't know what the inspector was talking about when he said it had to be run with other conductors. Was he talking about equipment grounds?
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No.. the water main was plastic.. why I wanted to use building steel
But, it turned out first 25' was copper inside the building, then changed to plastic
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10-06-2009, 09:59 PM
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#22
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Licensed Pro
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rahway, NJ
Posts: 2,787
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So did you use it as a GEC?
__________________
There's only one way to succeed in anything, and that is to give it everything.
Vince Lombardi
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10-06-2009, 10:08 PM
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#23
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: kentucky
Posts: 2,031
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Gec
As a fault current is increasing in a circuit the "the magnetic field" that is encompassing the "HOT" conductor actually increases the ampacity of the EGC so that it will trip the breaker quicker. Therefore it is always better to run the EGC as close to the circuit conductors as possible.
RIVETER
Last edited by RIVETER; 10-06-2009 at 10:44 PM.
Reason: Brain fart
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10-06-2009, 10:12 PM
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#24
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B4T Scotchkote installer
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Long Island, N.Y.
Posts: 4,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnettica
So did you use it as a GEC?
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Yes.. I used the water pipe
I will post some pics and start a new thread in the next few days .. did the job last year and I still "don't get it" 
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10-06-2009, 10:20 PM
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#25
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Licensed Pro
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rahway, NJ
Posts: 2,787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black4Truck
Yes.. I used the water pipe
I will post some pics and start a new thread in the next few days .. did the job last year and I still "don't get it" |
Well... if you "don't get it" you should be an inspector. 
__________________
There's only one way to succeed in anything, and that is to give it everything.
Vince Lombardi
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10-06-2009, 10:21 PM
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#26
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B4T Scotchkote installer
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Long Island, N.Y.
Posts: 4,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnettica
Well... if you "don't get it" you should be an inspector. |
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10-06-2009, 10:21 PM
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#27
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: kentucky
Posts: 2,031
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Service grounding
I have not looked at the code book for a while so I may be wrong.Let me know what you think. The picture of the grounding system showed the "GROUNDING" conductor tied to the neutral buss, then to the water pipe system and then to the system grounding electrode. As I remember, the grounding conductor connected to the panel must be connected to the metal water pipe system, if the system has one, and to the system ground rod. (Both are electrodes and should be independent of each other.) The picture depicted the system grounding conductor depending solely on the integrity of the water pipe system; If for some reason the metal water system is replaced with rubber, or plastic in the future, which does happen, the integrity of the system grounding is compromised.
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10-06-2009, 10:35 PM
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#28
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: kentucky
Posts: 2,031
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GEC or not
I tried to edit my post but could not, so I will retract part of what I said in an earlier post. I mispoke; I meant to say that the equipment ground, not the GEC, should be run close to the circuit conductors to facilitate the overload device.
RIVETER (Egg on face)
Last edited by RIVETER; 10-06-2009 at 10:39 PM.
Reason: Mispelling and too many BUDs
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10-07-2009, 03:02 AM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Maine (Tal Afar, Iraq presently)
Posts: 360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RIVETER
If for some reason the metal water system is replaced with rubber, or plastic in the future, which does happen, the integrity of the system grounding is compromised.
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Which is why the connection is required to be in the first 5' of the pipe entering the dwelling, that portion is less likely to be replaced with a different piping system.
__________________
Rick Boudreau
TASK FORCE SAFE INSPECTION TEAM LEADER
Tal Afar, Iraq
"fool-proof systems do not take into account the ingenuity of fools"
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10-07-2009, 03:04 AM
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#30
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Maine (Tal Afar, Iraq presently)
Posts: 360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnettica
Well... if you "don't get it" you should be an inspector. |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black4Truck
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That's not very nice!
__________________
Rick Boudreau
TASK FORCE SAFE INSPECTION TEAM LEADER
Tal Afar, Iraq
"fool-proof systems do not take into account the ingenuity of fools"
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10-07-2009, 07:17 PM
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#31
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Licensed Pro
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rahway, NJ
Posts: 2,787
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Were just joking around there are plenty of good EI's.
__________________
There's only one way to succeed in anything, and that is to give it everything.
Vince Lombardi
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10-08-2009, 12:36 AM
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#32
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Maine (Tal Afar, Iraq presently)
Posts: 360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnettica
Were just joking around there are plenty of good EI's.
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I know......I actually agree with you for the most part, I have seen some really good inspectors in my time, and I have seen some really bad ones as well.
I try and stay in that first group!
__________________
Rick Boudreau
TASK FORCE SAFE INSPECTION TEAM LEADER
Tal Afar, Iraq
"fool-proof systems do not take into account the ingenuity of fools"
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10-08-2009, 01:56 AM
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#33
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Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: N California
Posts: 40
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grounding
This is a good diagram. However, I would like it more if it considered the effect of a lightning stike on the service entrance conductors. I believe it would be better to connect the neutral bus or meter directly to a close ground rod to form the lowest inductance path. The way it is shown here, the lightning current will travel through the whole above-ground water pipe on its way to earth. This will cause extreme potential differences throughout the building. Not a good situation. 
EJPHI
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10-08-2009, 08:30 AM
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#34
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EJPHI
This is a good diagram. However, I would like it more if it considered the effect of a lightning stike on the service entrance conductors. I believe it would be better to connect the neutral bus or meter directly to a close ground rod to form the lowest inductance path. The way it is shown here, the lightning current will travel through the whole above-ground water pipe on its way to earth. This will cause extreme potential differences throughout the building. Not a good situation.
EJPHI
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For some reason everyone seems to feel that it needs to be next to the main breaker. And im refering to the ground rods.... By code you allowed to go at the meter or even the service drop. ...Good luck trying to pass that way though...
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10-08-2009, 12:25 PM
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#35
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Licensed Pro
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rahway, NJ
Posts: 2,787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EJPHI
This is a good diagram. However, I would like it more if it considered the effect of a lightning stike on the service entrance conductors. I believe it would be better to connect the neutral bus or meter directly to a close ground rod to form the lowest inductance path. The way it is shown here, the lightning current will travel through the whole above-ground water pipe on its way to earth. This will cause extreme potential differences throughout the building. Not a good situation.
EJPHI
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I agree with your assessment. But in certain situations the ground rods go wherever they can be driven. Code says what the Code says.
__________________
There's only one way to succeed in anything, and that is to give it everything.
Vince Lombardi
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10-08-2009, 07:01 PM
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#36
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Mad Skills
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EJPHI
The way it is shown here, the lightning current will travel through the whole above-ground water pipe on its way to earth. This will cause extreme potential differences throughout the building. Not a good situation.
EJPHI
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You do realize that many times the steel skeleton of a building is used as the path for the lighting strike ...and what is attached to the skeleton.....everything ~ plumbing, electric, sprinklers, etc.
__________________
Fountain of Useless Information
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10-08-2009, 07:19 PM
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#37
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: kentucky
Posts: 2,031
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Grounding electrodes
It does not matter if you have 100 steel beams anchored five feet in reinforced concrete,you must bond them and still place a supplemental ground rod at the service. 
RIVETER
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10-09-2009, 05:14 AM
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#38
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Baltimore, MD, USA
Posts: 3,490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RIVETER
It does not matter if you have 100 steel beams anchored five feet in reinforced concrete,you must bond them a nd still place a supplemental ground rod at the service.
RIVETER |
Where is that requirement in 250.52(A)(2)?
The only electrode that requires a supplemental electrode is a metal underground water pipe, and it does not have to be a ground rod - 250.53(D)
__________________
John from Baltimore
"One day at a Time"
All responses based on the '08 NEC
It's not my fault, it's not my problem, I'm not your solution. 
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10-09-2009, 08:49 PM
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#39
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: kentucky
Posts: 2,031
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Supplemental ground rod
Prove what I have said is wrong and I will defend it.
RIVETER
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10-09-2009, 08:51 PM
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#40
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Not Peter D
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 5,437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RIVETER
Prove what I have said is wrong and I will defend it.
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He just did.
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