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Old 10-07-2010, 07:33 PM   #1
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Default Ground Screw Do Not Need to Be Green?

I'm beginning to question everything I've ever been taught, because I'm beginning to believe I was never taught properly to begin with.

Last job I was on, I was told that ever box had to be installed pre-grounded, and that the grounds needed to be green. I took this at face value and just assumed that ground screws have to be green. It was probably just spec. and I didn't realize it, because I was told the inspector wouldn't pass us if there wasn't a green screw in every box he checked out.

I asked the electrician about that today and he said they do not have to be green, but they do have to be machine screws (no self tappers). I took a brief look in the code book during lunch and also noted that they also cannot be used for any other purpose if they are intended to ground the box.

I found articles 250.8 and 250.148 (C).

I feel like the more I learn, the less I know...

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Old 10-07-2010, 07:36 PM   #2
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Most are green just because the manufacturers make 'em that way. But they could make them pink, purple, orange, yellow, blue, or even (gasp!) gray.

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Old 10-07-2010, 07:38 PM   #3
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Most are green just because the manufacturers make 'em that way. But they could make them pink, purple, orange, yellow, blue, or even (gasp!) gray.
I think what frustrates me the most is how much false, or half-true information I absorbed the past 3 years.
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Old 10-07-2010, 07:44 PM   #4
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There are a few inspectors around here that would cause you to believe they need to be green....

Tom
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Old 10-07-2010, 07:45 PM   #5
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There are a few inspectors around here that would cause you to believe they need to be green....

Tom

Simply ask for a Code reference.
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Old 10-07-2010, 07:46 PM   #6
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Sometimes people will claim 250.126 requires box grounding screws to be green but this section only applies to devices.


Quote:
250.126 Identification of Wiring Device Terminals.
The terminal for the connection of the equipment grounding
conductor shall be identified by one of the following:

(1) A green, not readily removable terminal screw with a
hexagonal head.

(2) green, hexagonal, not readily removable terminal nut.

(3) A green pressure wire connector. If the terminal for
the grounding conductor is not visible, the conductor
entrance hole shall be marked with the word green or
ground, the letters G or GR, a grounding symbol, or
otherwise identified by a distinctive green color. If
the terminal for the equipment grounding conductor
is readily removable, the area adjacent to the terminal
shall be similarly marked.
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Old 10-07-2010, 07:50 PM   #7
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Sometimes people will claim 250.126 requires box grounding screws to be green but this section only applies to devices.
This is the information I need to know, not only the correct information, but the incorrect information someone might try to argue with.
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Old 10-07-2010, 08:00 PM   #8
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Simply ask for a Code reference.

I agree, I usually mess around a bit(with inspectors) if I'm feeling frisky. I actually enjoy inspectors that are knowledgeable, they usually will listen to reason. Not in turn believe what they believe cause that's what someone told them at an inspectors meeting.

Most times round here for me if I ask for a reference it's already out of hand...

Tom
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Old 10-07-2010, 08:02 PM   #9
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This is the information I need to know, not only the correct information, but the incorrect information someone might try to argue with.

The more code cycles you go thru the more confusing it can get. You learn something and then they go and change it.
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Old 10-07-2010, 08:06 PM   #10
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Good thing the 2011 is coming out soon, because I've not even put a dent in my 2008.

I highlight things as I learn them. I'll cross reference them when I get the 2011.
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Old 10-07-2010, 08:10 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Frasbee View Post
I asked the electrician about that today and he said they do not have to be green, but they do have to be machine screws (no self tappers).
Take a look at 250.8(6).....self tappers are fine in the 2008 Code....
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Old 10-07-2010, 08:12 PM   #12
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Take a look at 250.8(6).....self tappers are fine in the 2008 Code....
No they are not. Self tapping MACHINE SCREWS are ok. Not a #12 self tapper
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Old 10-07-2010, 08:16 PM   #13
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No they are not. Self tapping MACHINE SCREWS are ok. Not a #12 self tapper
Yeah, the guy I worked with basically said, machine screws are fine, no coarse thread screws.
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Old 10-07-2010, 08:17 PM   #14
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No they are not. Self tapping MACHINE SCREWS are ok. Not a #12 self tapper
Thread-forming machine screws is how it is stated....hence self-tapping....
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Old 10-07-2010, 08:19 PM   #15
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I think what frustrates me the most is how much false, or half-true information I absorbed the past 3 years.

I was very surprised and humbled when I first started studying for my license and realized that half the stuff I was taught/told wasn't exactly correct.
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Old 10-07-2010, 08:20 PM   #16
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Thread-forming machine screws is how it is stated....hence self-tapping....
I believe that might be skirting the line, because it specifies no less than 2 threads to be engaged. Depending upon the thickness of the material you're securing to, coarse thread may not be enough.

Just something to consider.
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Old 10-07-2010, 08:27 PM   #17
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I believe that might be skirting the line, because it specifies no less than 2 threads to be engaged. Depending upon the thickness of the material you're securing to, coarse thread may not be enough.

Just something to consider.
I think we are on the same page....just pointing out that a self tapping maching screw is fine...you don't HAVE to drill and use a nut, or pre-tap...
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Old 10-07-2010, 08:27 PM   #18
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Thread-forming machine screws is how it is stated....hence self-tapping....

Everyone calls a course thread a self tapper. You left the machine screw part out. Just making sure no one got confused thats all.
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Old 10-07-2010, 08:28 PM   #19
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I believe that might be skirting the line, because it specifies no less than 2 threads to be engaged. Depending upon the thickness of the material you're securing to, coarse thread may not be enough.

Just something to consider.
What I call a course thread is not legal. Self tapper machine thread ok.
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Old 10-07-2010, 08:28 PM   #20
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I think we are on the same page....just pointing out that a self tapping maching screw is fine...you don't HAVE to drill and use a nut, or pre-tap...
In other words...if you're in a tight spot, and you have to hack, you can.

I still prefer my green ground screws if I can help it, though.

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