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Old 03-26-2013, 05:57 PM   #1
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Default Grounding Water Pipe 200amp service

Good afternoon gentlemen,
First I would like to apologize if this topic has already been covered recently but I couldn't find anything. I am looking for clarification on sizing the ground wire that is required to be ran from a new 200 amp service to the cold water pipe.
Initially I looked at table 250.122 where it states that with a 200amp overcurrent device you are only required to install a #6 copper ground. When i read a little more I realized this table is for grounding raceways and equipment. I am assuming they are not referring to a water pipe ground as equipment so i kept looking.
Next I looked at table 250.66 where it states that because I am using 4/0 aluminum as my largest ungrounded conductor that i am required to install a #4 cooper ground.
Finally I saw 250.66 (a): connections to rod, pipe, or plate electrodes. Which states that the grounding electrode shall not be larger than #6 copper.
I have always ran #6 and never had any issues with local inspectors but that doesn't always mean it is correct. From internet searches I keep getting mixed answers. I know that the 200 amp service package the supply house sells includes a #6 copper ground. Any clarification would be great. I am newly licensed and want to make sure I am doing things the right way. Thanks all!

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Old 03-26-2013, 06:00 PM   #2
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4 CU To water pipe #6 CU to rod

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Old 03-26-2013, 06:05 PM   #3
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You need to learn the difference between a grounding electrode conductor (T. 250.66) and a equipment grounding conductor (T. 250.122)

Anything with the service such as bonding and sizing the grounding electrode conductor deals with T. 250.66. Table 250.122 is the equipment grounding conductor that may be run with conductors for a branch circuit or a feeder- these would have an overcurrent protective device ahead of the conductors and gets sized to that breaker, fuse etc.
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Old 03-26-2013, 06:55 PM   #4
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May i recommend Soares.....



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Old 03-26-2013, 08:33 PM   #5
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Newly licensed in NJ, which means you passed a pretty tough test and you don't know what size ground wires to run for a service??? Hmmmm what exactly were you doing for your 5 years of qualifying experience?
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:40 PM   #6
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Newly licensed in NJ, which means you passed a pretty tough test and you don't know what size ground wires to run for a service??? Hmmmm what exactly were you doing for your 5 years of qualifying experience?
Some of the best fire alarm or control men or electical testers would not know this off the top of their heads. Hell many regular old JWs for that matter.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:42 PM   #7
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4 CU To water pipe #6 CU to rod
Bare #2 AL to water pipe is so much cheaper.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:44 PM   #8
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Bare #2 AL to water pipe is so much cheaper.
True. But the poster was talking about copper so I just kept it simple.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:48 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by brian john

Some of the best fire alarm or control men or electical testers would not know this off the top of their heads. Hell many regular old JWs for that matter.
True. But my point was if he's newly licensed I know that those same questions are asked on the test, at least they were on the one I took 6 months ago.
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:58 PM   #10
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I'm also a little surprised he didn't know that, but I wasn't going to give him sh*t for it...
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:18 AM   #11
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I'm also a little surprised he didn't know that, but I wasn't going to give him sh*t for it...
This is basic ****. He wants to run a business, if that kinda work is out of his comfort zone then don't do it. Stick to what you know.
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:26 AM   #12
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For those of you so interested, my experience is mostly in controls and high voltage testing an maintenance. I do know the difference between a gec and egc. Just a little rusty with the codebook. As soon as i read a little in the egc section i realized i was in the wrong section. I was just a little confused why you can run a #6 to the rods but are required to run a #4 to the pipe. Isnt a chain only as strong as its weakest link? And also i dont do residential work regularly i was doing a service for my mother, which passed inspection. Thanks for the info.
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:30 AM   #13
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This is basic ****. He wants to run a business, if that kinda work is out of his comfort zone then don't do it. Stick to what you know.
You assume a lot about me. How do you know i want to run a business? I was doing work to help out family so they dont get raked over the coals for a service. I guess you would rather them pay you the 2500 or whatever you charge to come do it right? I was simply here looking for some info to help out my family. Dont break a leg hopping off your high horse. Also. The test wasnt very hard.
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:47 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asigman5

You assume a lot about me. How do you know i want to run a business? I was doing work to help out family so they dont get raked over the coals for a service. I guess you would rather them pay you the 2500 or whatever you charge to come do it right? I was simply here looking for some info to help out my family. Dont break a leg hopping off your high horse. Also. The test wasnt very hard.
Your right. I shouldn't assume. The test wasn't overtly hard if you have any good sense and can test well. They do try and trick you up a bit. Your absolutely right if its for family I would do the same thing. After all that's what this forum is for right. To come here for help.
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:52 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asigman5

You assume a lot about me. How do you know i want to run a business? I was doing work to help out family so they dont get raked over the coals for a service. I guess you would rather them pay you the 2500 or whatever you charge to come do it right? I was simply here looking for some info to help out my family. Dont break a leg hopping off your high horse. Also. The test wasnt very hard.
I was always taught the dumb questions are the ones not asked . Different rules apply on this forum sometimes , lol ! Doing nothing but industrial and commercial work for the last 20 years I sympathize with you . It's been a while since I did my last residential service , so if you haven't done many or don't do them often , it's easy to not know everything . I'm also newly licensed in jersey and I didn't think the test was that hard either , lol ! At the end of the day , nobody knows everything in this trade and most of us are here to learn and even help once in a while .
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Old 03-27-2013, 11:38 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonardElectric View Post
Bare #2 AL to water pipe is so much cheaper.
And that may be fine, or it could be a code violation.


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250.64 Grounding Electrode Conductor Installation. Grounding electrode conductors at the service, at each building or structure where supplied by a feeder(s) or branch circuit(s), or at a separately derived system shall be installed as specified in 250.64(A) through (F).

(A) Aluminum or Copper-Clad Aluminum Conductors. Bare aluminum or copper-clad aluminum grounding con-ductors shall not be used where in direct contact with ma-sonry or the earth or where subject to corrosive conditions. Where used outside, aluminum or copper-clad aluminum grounding conductors shall not be terminated within 450 mm (18 in.) of the earth.
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Old 03-27-2013, 03:47 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asigman5 View Post
You assume a lot about me. How do you know i want to run a business? I was doing work to help out family so they dont get raked over the coals for a service. I guess you would rather them pay you the 2500 or whatever you charge to come do it right? I was simply here looking for some info to help out my family. Dont break a leg hopping off your high horse. Also. The test wasnt very hard.
If you're asking me then the answer is yes. I would much prefer to come and collect a check than answer simple grounding questions on a professional forum.
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Old 03-27-2013, 03:56 PM   #18
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I do know the difference between a gec and egc. Just a little rusty with the codebook.
I did not mean for my statement to be negative but rather to state it is very important to know the difference. Your question led me to believe you were mixing them up.

An equipment grounding conductor has a overcurrent protective device that will trip on a fault if the proper size conductor is run. These sizes would be smaller than what is required for the grounding electrode conductor on a service.

Remember the #6 is allowed to the ground rod because the rod is only as good as a #6 conductor.
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:03 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnettica

If you're asking me then the answer is yes. I would much prefer to come and collect a check than answer simple grounding questions on a professional forum.
Another garden state know it all , lol ! They're a dime a dozen on this forum . Sorry , couldn't resist .

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