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Old 05-13-2009, 08:53 PM   #1
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Default nyc electrical code and building codes

i am getting violations from city inspectors on the bond wire from panel to transformer they are saying that the size of the bond wire must be as large as the feed wire.

fa inspectors are now giving violations on the ground wire for a fuse cut out thay say it should be a number 8 wire not 10.

anyone know where i can read this in black and white i cant seem to find it anywhere

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Old 05-13-2009, 11:22 PM   #2
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The instructor that taught one of our transformer classes in the apprenticeship said the same thing. But I don't agree with it yet.

Read 250.102(c) and (d). They send you to table 250.122 for sizing. 250.102(d) says it shall not be required to be larger than the largest ungrounded circuit conductors.

Anyone else?

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Old 05-14-2009, 01:22 AM   #3
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I don't think I had that right. Start with 250.30.
I believe you size off Table 250.66.
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Old 05-14-2009, 08:22 AM   #4
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Grumpy, did you ask them what they are basing these violations on?
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Old 05-22-2010, 02:19 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grumpy View Post

fa inspectors are now giving violations on the ground wire for a fuse cut out thay say it should be a number 8 wire not 10.

anyone know where i can read this in black and white i cant seem to find it anywhere
I just heard this from a Fire Alarm vendor yesterday, but also no proof.
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:34 AM   #6
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The one line diagram on the approved, stamped as-builts, show what the inspector will look for.
Most cases it's a #8 solid green from building steel to the Fused Disconnect Switch (FDS) and then a #10 solid green to the equipment. Be sure to use a #8 double lug to transition the two size wires in the FDS and also terminate the #10 solid neutrals on the isolated neutral bar in the switch.
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:42 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Special Ed View Post
The one line diagram on the approved, stamped as-builts, show what the inspector will look for.
Most cases it's a #8 solid green from building steel to the Fused Disconnect Switch (FDS) and then a #10 solid green to the equipment. Be sure to use a #8 double lug to transition the two size wires in the FDS and also terminate the #10 solid neutrals on the isolated neutral bar in the switch.
Hey SE, welcome to the forum. Our Fire Code is different than many other locations...in some area's it's still a number 10AWG. We changed that in 2008 I believe.

Again, welcome!
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:44 AM   #8
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Here's a transformer drawing I was asked to come up with for the Bonding and Grounding Course we teach
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File Type: jpg Transformer Bonding by Steve Adair5.jpg (95.8 KB, 13 views)
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:51 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
i am getting violations from city inspectors on the bond wire from panel to transformer they are saying that the size of the bond wire must be as large as the feed wire.

Complete BS. And now we have 35 new inspectors who are violating everything they can. Remember, here in NYC now there is now a fine attached to any life threatening Class 1 Violation

fa inspectors are now giving violations on the ground wire for a fuse cut out thay say it should be a number 8 wire not 10.

Yes, you can find this in the 2008 NY Fire Code

anyone know where i can read this in black and white i cant seem to find it anywhere
Hope that helps.
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:35 AM   #10
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Thanks Steve! I was just commenting on the Fire Alarm portion of Grumpy's question but thank you for that great diagram.
I am on the mailing list for the Grounding/Bonding class but have not heard of a start date yet.
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:15 AM   #11
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We're running a class now. The next round will probably be in January. It and Electric Vehicles are two insanely popular classes right now. I teach Code and EV to AJ's...Code and Solar to Apprentices. Sign up for everything you can. The B&G is probably our best course to date and it's only getting better.

Thanks for the props for the diagram. When the App Dept asked me for a diagram I was asked to show the 5th Fl. Next thing I knew they put it in the course book lol. We're trying to keep the AJ's and App's training synced up.
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:02 PM   #12
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#8 is the smallest grounding electrode you're allowed to use,since the fused disconnect is normally tapped ahead of the main switch it's considered a service switch.Although most FA vendors list it as solid on their drawings I've had no problem using stranded.
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:30 PM   #13
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#8 is the smallest grounding electrode you're allowed to use,since the fused disconnect is normally tapped ahead of the main switch it's considered a service switch.Although most FA vendors list it as solid on their drawings I've had no problem using stranded.
Same here. I've never had a problem with a Marshal inspecting the FA when he see's it's stranded. They look for the major no no's...did you splice the connection, did you follow Advisory Board Drawings, etc.

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