preacher

I just had an electrical inspector fail an inground pool because he said the bonding grid and the lighting equipment grounding conductor cannot be connected together. My response was that they are at the light niche and through the EGC for the pump. Any thoughts on this? Thanks, Brian

Speedy Petey

How and where could you connect the EGC for the light to the bonding grid? They never come in contact.

preacher

In the pool deck box both are in the same 1 inch conduit going from the light to the panel. The bond from the wet niche is connected to the grid. Another inspector insisted they be together.

Speedy Petey

Are you referring to the solid #8 in a PVC between the forming shell and the deck box?

If so this is simply the required bond for the PVC. That wire is NOT part of the bonding grid.
True, this bond and the grid bond are both connected to the forming shell (one inside and one outside) but I would not consider them "connected". What if you used brass pipe from the forming shell? Same thing, different approach.
That PVC bond is connected inside the deck box with all the equipment grounds. This is one of the only place the EGC for the light can be spliced.

What is he saying should be done? I am now curious as to what the heck he thinks is right.

I am convinced many inspectors only have 1/3 of a clue when it comes to pools.

preacher

That's exactly what I have. The #8 solid bond from the light niche and the #12 from the cord assembly and the #12 from the panel are all together (on different terminals) on the brass base of the pool j-box. Interesting thing is I've done 100's of these and this is the first time I've ever heard this. I asked him how to correct it and he told me the #8 solid should not go to the light EGC but out of the J-box to the bonding grid.

Speedy Petey

This man is incompetent.

kbsparky

MANY of those pool light junction boxes now have an external bonding lug on them, which is meant to connect to your bonding grid.

One question I have for you folks who are installing a solid #8 bonding wire in the PVC conduit from the forming shell to the pool deck junction box: Why in the world are you using solid wire? That has to be a real bear to install. We always use #8 THWN green stranded conductor for this purpose. Although I admit that the Code does not require it to be green.

preacher

The only reason we end up with a #8 solid is because the pool concrete crew installs the wet niche and also the bonding grid and since #8 solid is required for the grid they use the same thing for the lights. It is installed and encapsulated and left coiled there for our use. It is a bear to install.

Speedy Petey

Oh I know. That is exactly what I use for wet niche lights. Pretty common procedure, but that SJ cord along with the #8TW IS a bear to get in.

KayJay

I think one of the inspectors is right but maybe didn’t properly explain the issue he had with the installation.
680.23[b]2 in the ‘05 and ‘08 NEC says that the #8 bonding jumper that runs inside the PVC with the flexible cord from the wet niche fixture’s shell to the deck box, can be solid or stranded copper, but must be insulated. You wouldn’t need it if you use threaded brass conduit to the fixture’s shell.
That bare #8 solid copper [or larger] that the pool guy’s are leaving you should be connected to the outside of the fixture forming shell and connected into the equipotential bonding grid, which also happens to include the metal deck box itself, even if you happen to run threaded brass conduit to that wet niche fixture.
This seems redundant, but it is actually two separate things, even though they have a “common” connection at that point.
So that’s generally two #8 to each wet niche metal forming shell connected with PVC conduit. One insulated, one bare. These shells normally have two lugs for this purpose, one internal and one external. There are exceptions to this for low voltage fixtures and non-metallic forming shells.

preacher

These are PVC forming shell and the bonding point in the shell is in the interior of the shell and there is only 1 wire and 1 way to get it "out" of the shell and that is through the 1 inch hub on the shell where the conduit to the pool box fastens to. I spoke to another inspector on another job and he thinks that they way we have always did them is correct. It's interesting, we do maybe 200-300 pools per year and this is the first time we've ever been "violated". That doesn't sound right!

KayJay

Okay, so as stated then, there is an exception.
As long as the #8 copper conductor that runs in the PVC along with the fixture cord from the deck box to the forming shell is insulated and rated for wet locations, then I guess I don’t understand what issue the inspector has, because you will still have the “common” connection point at the deck box.

Speedy Petey

This is NOT correct. The metallic (brass) base of the average pool light deck box DOES NOT get connected to the bonding grid.

Read 680.26(B) very closely. As long as the deck box is more than 5' from the pool, it does NOT fit the description of items 680.26(B)(1) through (5).

randomkiller

It may not sound right but that's exactly how it feels.

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preacher

I think part of the problem is because of the areas we cover so many different inspectors and local authorities are involved. It seems like they aren't always on the same page. I spoke to a township inspector yesterday and he asked me why I didn't connect the bonding wire to the equipment ground bar in the panel and I told him we normally don't. He told me most installers do. I'm not sure what to think anymore. I was a state electrical inspector in Idaho and say what you might about state inspectors at least they were on the same page and consistant. I really appreciate that now.

KayJay

I was simply using the code minimum of not less than 4-feet from the edge of the pool with no permanent barrier between.
The point I was trying to emphasize was that there is a difference for the requirements between the #8 bonding jumper run inside the PVC conduit and the bare #8 solid or larger bare conductor for the equipotential grid.
My best guess was that since the OP stated the pool guys were using the same #8 wire for the grid as the light forming shell, they are leaving him a #8 Bare wire to run in the conduit and encapsulating the connection in the forming shell for him.
I was thinking this is probably what the inspector was getting his panties in a bunch over. Sorry for the misunderstanding.