Say what! SE-R under 60 degree C. columun - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum

partimer31 · 03-11-2010, 01:22 PM

Is any one out there using SE-R for a circuit feeder to an electrical
stove, size #4 if your work out of the NEC 2008 CODE HANDBOOK.

Had inspector tell me that the 2008 requies the SE-R current rating be
taken from the 60 degree C. columun. Numer six is no longer approved
in the 2008.

Thanks for all who leave a comment.

electricmanscott · 03-11-2010, 02:41 PM

So did you take a look in the book?

338.10 (4) says that se cable installed in interior installations shall be in accordance with part 2 of 334. 334.80 says ampacity is based on the 60 degree column.

MA amends this somewhat but in general it is similar.

BuzzKill · 03-11-2010, 03:01 PM

yeah it's treated like romex

jw0445 · 03-11-2010, 03:25 PM

That's why I started using Cu.

KayJay · 03-11-2010, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by partimer31

Is any one out there using SE-R for a circuit feeder to an electrical
stove, size #4 if your work out of the NEC 2008 CODE HANDBOOK.

Had inspector tell me that the 2008 requies the SE-R current rating be
taken from the 60 degree C. columun. Numer six is no longer approved
in the 2008.

Thanks for all who leave a comment.

Tell him your wiring for future NEC compliance.
Looks like the CMP realized their mistake and changed this for 2011, so will then only require the 60C temp limitation if the SER cable is imbedded in thermal insulation.
As soon as Vermont adopts the 2011 NEC, as long as the SER isn’t embedded in insulation, your installation will be in compliance by default. Technically, you’re ahead of the curve.

B4T · 03-11-2010, 04:23 PM

OK.. so I am going to wire a new house with 100a service and use #4 thhn.

Then to wire the stove, I am going to run 4/3 NM..

Those code making panels need to get out into the real world before making these STUPID code changes.

**Speedy Petey** · 03-11-2010, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black4Truck

Those code making panels need to get out into the real world before making these STUPID code changes.

And such is the 2008 NEC.

There are more stupid changes in the 2008 NEC than I have EVER seen.

manchestersparky · 03-11-2010, 06:21 PM

I wish the CMP would pick one way or the other and leave it alone !

They added the phrase" excluding ampacity" to the requirement in the 2002 and the 2005 code cycles. Then they took it back away in the 2008.

SE was 60 degree rated for ampacity in the 1999,1996,1993,1990,1987.
I stopped at 1987

nitro71 · 03-11-2010, 08:38 PM

Inspector is correct.

idontknow · 03-12-2010, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black4Truck

OK.. so I am going to wire a new house with 100a service and use #4 thhn.

Then to wire the stove, I am going to run 4/3 NM..

Those code making panels need to get out into the real world before making these STUPID code changes.

Wire the stove in 8/3 and place it on a 40 amp breaker. Am I missing something in that a stove conductors need to be rated for 60 amps or something?

B4T · 03-12-2010, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by idontknow

Wire the stove in 8/3 and place it on a 40 amp breaker. Am I missing something in that a stove conductors need to be rated for 60 amps or something?

Most self cleaning stoves I have seen require a 50 amp. breaker

nitro71 · 03-12-2010, 10:24 PM

Most ranges only require a 40amp circuit. Go check some of the manufactures specs.

B4T · 03-13-2010, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitro71

Most ranges only require a 40amp circuit. Go check some of the manufactures specs.

I just checked some ovens and all needed 40 amp. line, guess more energy efficient models.

Who knew..

electricmanscott · 03-13-2010, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black4Truck

I just checked some ovens and all needed 40 amp. line, guess more energy efficient models.

Who knew..

Many ovens only require a 20 amp 120/240v circuit. Some 30 and some 40.

**Speedy Petey** · 03-13-2010, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black4Truck

I just checked some ovens and all needed 40 amp. line, guess more energy efficient models.

Who knew..

Code requires only a 40A circuit for ANY household cooking appliance rated 12kW or less.

**Dennis Alwon** · 03-13-2010, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by idontknow

Wire the stove in 8/3 and place it on a 40 amp breaker. Am I missing something in that a stove conductors need to be rated for 60 amps or something?

In most cases this will work esp. small kitchens. Todays stoves run the gamut from 20 amps to 60 amps.

One issue with #8 is the use of NM. Nm restricts the col. to 60C thus you can only use a 40 amps breaker not larger.

danickstr · 03-21-2010, 06:35 PM

for a range to exceed 40amps is difficult, if they run the broiler (2700w), the baking element (2300w) and 4 burners up top 2 (1200w) 2 (1500w). Could happen, but not too often. 10400w / 240 v = 43 amps

typical 30" sears stove above