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Old 06-10-2009, 02:22 PM   #1
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Default Splices in wall

What article talk about splices in the walls? I'll looing in 314 but see what I'm looking for. I always try to splice in a box. At a home today and the carpenter cut through a Nm cable. He was going to use connectors to fix it and then dry-wall over it. How do fix it when it is in the middle of wall? I'm thinking pull new wire but this second floor new home, splice ins in this 10 x 10 addition. Never had one in the middle of the wall before that why I am asking.

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Old 06-10-2009, 02:27 PM   #2
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Try 300.15(A).

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Old 06-10-2009, 02:41 PM   #3
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Thanks for the quick reply 480. So in reading 300.15, I need to pull new wire or put a box with a accessible cover.
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Old 06-10-2009, 03:01 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guschash View Post
Thanks for the quick reply 480. So in reading 300.15, I need to pull new wire or put a box with a accessible cover.
Yes.
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Old 06-11-2009, 11:42 AM   #5
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You might be able to use these Tyco NM splices:

http://www.tycoelectronics.com/catal...n/c/11621/1394

Theoretically, the manuf says they don't require a box.
I have never used them, just passing on the info.
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Old 06-11-2009, 04:31 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rexowner View Post
You might be able to use these Tyco NM splices:

http://www.tycoelectronics.com/catal...n/c/11621/1394

Theoretically, the manuf says they don't require a box.
I have never used them, just passing on the info.

While they are legal...one would seriously have to be out of their mind to use the product.

I cannot fathom one valid reason to ever use one ~ other than somebody being "frugal".
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Old 06-11-2009, 05:30 PM   #7
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I've seen those in modular homes near where sections are joined together. I don't think I would bury those in a wall. Probably work fine, just something we don't see all the time.
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Old 06-11-2009, 08:03 PM   #8
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Although They are a legal splice, It still has to remain accessible. It is a mechanical Device.
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Old 06-11-2009, 08:09 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiloelectric View Post
Although They are a legal splice, It still has to remain accessible. It is a mechanical Device.

That's right and the time it took to post the thread he could of ran new wire and had the carp. patch it all up.
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Old 06-11-2009, 08:32 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiloelectric View Post
Although They are a legal splice, It still has to remain accessible. It is a mechanical Device.

Are you sure?


This product was discussed on thread at CT recently:
Romex Splice and Tap Kit??


Here is my comment from another thread/forum posted about 2 years ago:
Quote:
We discussed this product over at another forum recently:

Here is what I found:
quote:
* The AMP NETCONNECT Non-Metallic (NM) Sheathed Cable Interconnections provide a fast and reliable way to permanently interconnect 3.23 or 2.07 mm² (12 and 14 AWG) circuits. They eliminate the need for junction boxes, covers, wire nuts and box connectors.

* NM Cable Splices and Taps use insulation displacement contacts (IDC) and require no special tools for termination.

* Meets requirements of NEC 2002 articles 545, 550, 551 and 334-40B (Tap and 3-Wire Interconnection)
http://www.ampnetconnect.com/product...07&path=0,2299

NEC '02 334.40(B) states:
quote:
334.40(B) Devices of Insulating Material.
Switch, outlet, and tap devices of insulating material shall be permitted to be used without boxes in exposed cable wiring and for rewiring in existing buildings where the cable is concealed and fished. Openings in such devices shall form a close fit around the outer covering of the cable, and the device shall fully enclose the part of the cable from which any part of the covering has been removed. Where connections to conductors are by binding-screw terminals, there shall be available as many terminals as conductors.
For '02 code cycle - this product IS LEGAL.

For '05 code cycle, the NEC remains unchanged on 334.40(B), therefore this product IS LEGAL.

For the '08 code cycle, the NEC remains unchanged on 334.40(B), therefore this product IS LEGAL.


I, personally, would NOT use this product in spite of it's compliance with 334.40(B)


A few threads from some other forums where the item was also discussed:
Amp Connectors and 334.40(B) from 02-27-2007
Romex splice/tap connectors from 11-01-2007

One of the above threads also cites a reference to the IAEI:
http://iaei-western.org/Files/2007/2...ePanel_Q&A.doc

Here is the relevant text from that document:
quote:
93. A company advertises a "Romex 3 Conductor Splice Kit" which has been used in the past for connecting power in sections of a modular home. This company is now also claiming that these splice kits can be used in remodeling work in an existing house and be buried in the wall per "Article 334-40b" (their exact terminology). The UL listing category appears to be QAAV, which in the brief description in the White Book indicates that these must be capable of withstanding"... mechanical shock that might occur while transporting the units in which they are used." which would seem to indicate their use is for the modular home connections and not for burial in a wall. Is this the correct listing for the product? Can they be buried in a wall?

As the question states that these NM cable and splice kits are Lsited under the category Non Metallic Sheathed Cable Interconnectors (QAAV), located on page 240 in the 2007 White Book. This category covers self-contained interconnectors employing pressure cable connectors, insulation displacement or insulation piercing connectors for splicing or tapping nonmetallic (NM) sheathed cable. These interconnectors are intended for installation in accordance with ANSI/NFPA 70, "National Electrical Code."
These devices have been investigated for equivalency to Type NM cable in insulation and temperature rise, and for capability to withstand fault currents, vibration and mechanical shock that may occur during transport of the units in which they are used.

300.15 Where boxes or fittings are required, (H) Insulated Devices As permitted in 334.40(B), a box or conduit body shall not be required for insulated devices supplied by nonmetallic-sheathed cable.

334.40 (B) Devices of Insulating Material Switch, outlet, and tap devices of insulating material shall be permitted to be used without boxes in exposed cable wiring and for rewiring in existing buildings where the cable is concealed and fished. Openings in such devices shall form a close fit around the outer covering of the cable, and the device shall fully enclose the part of the cable from which any part of the covering has been removed.

These interconnecors are insulating devices equivalent to NM cable and can be installed in accordance with Section 334.40(B), so if is being used for rewiring in existing building, it can be concealed and fished.
Bottom line:
These interconnecors are insulating devices equivalent to NM cable and can be installed in accordance with Section 334.40(B), so if is being used for rewiring in existing building, it can be concealed and fished.
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Old 06-11-2009, 09:55 PM   #11
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Where are these connectors available at. I check with my supply house and they did not carry them.
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Old 06-11-2009, 10:59 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guschash View Post
Where are these connectors available at. I check with my supply house and they did not carry them.
Try a manufactured/modular home builder.
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Old 06-11-2009, 11:01 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guschash View Post
Where are these connectors available at. I check with my supply house and they did not carry them.
Mine doesn't either. They appear to be available
at places such as Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Tyco-CPGI-1116.../dp/B000VHF1B0
and Ace Hardware Outlet:
http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(1k...px?SKU=3238110

Out of curiosity, I bought one a couple of months ago.
The actual product looks OK to me if properly installed.
I am not a NRTL, but it looks to me that the case
would contain any possible arcs and IDCs make
good connections if properly installed, so there shouldn't
be any arcs or opens. Just my opinion, having said that,
I've never found a reason to actually use the thing.

What I would be more worried about is the product
being installed with the case cracked or the screws
not properly tightened, if installed by some hack,
since they can be found online.

Anyway, the things are out there, might as well know
about it.
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Old 06-11-2009, 11:48 PM   #14
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coming from an area where all wiring is in conduit and ALL splices must be in a box that is accessable, I find it very difficult to grasp the concept of any slices buried in a wall. I have 2 questions....#1...is there a U.L. label on these spice kits?.......#2.....would you use them in your own house???
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Old 06-12-2009, 12:25 AM   #15
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#2.....would you use them in your own house???
I sure wouldn't. Although I've seen some crazy things done by electricians in their own home.
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Old 06-12-2009, 12:29 AM   #16
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Id strip it, twist it with my blue's, wire nuts and bout half a roll of black tape and call it a day, lol
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Old 06-12-2009, 10:24 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prldrp1 View Post
coming from an area where all wiring is in conduit and ALL splices must be in a box that is accessable, I find it very difficult to grasp the concept of any slices buried in a wall. I have 2 questions....#1...is there a U.L. label on these spice kits?.......#2.....would you use them in your own house???
Yes, U.L. listed, according to manufacturer. I would not
totally rule out using them in the future, but as I have no experience
with them other than examining them, and have heard
no industry feedback, I'd have to think long and hard
before using them.
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Old 06-12-2009, 05:39 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prldrp1 View Post
I have 2 questions....


#1...is there a U.L. label on these spice kits?.......
yes, they are UL listed/labeled..


Quote:
Originally Posted by prldrp1 View Post
#2.....would you use them in your own house???
Not a chance.
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Old 06-13-2009, 03:19 AM   #19
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You can find these goofy things at my Big Orange!!!???? Scary!!!
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Old 06-13-2009, 06:46 AM   #20
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better check with the local AHJ -
There is a ton of mixed feelings for those pieces of crap.
I know of Residential inspectors who say "no way"

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