System and MBJ - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum

Joe Tedesco · 10-25-2009, 05:37 AM

This is an issue that has to do with the lack of understanding related to the "System and MBJ"

See Section 408.40 Grounding of Panelboards in the 2008 NEC.

Questions:

Is there a way that someone can address concerns about persons who are portraying themselves as so called SME's “electrical inspectors” without proper recognized credentials, such as by being certified by some State, City, or Town, or by the IAEI or NFPA?

What is the procedure in your area?

Is there an official grievance body or process anywhere?

For instance, if an engineer without a license signed off on a drawing could they be reported to the appropriate licensing body?

wingz · 10-25-2009, 05:55 AM

Is that a bonding screw in the neutral bar of a sub-panel?

Joe Tedesco · 10-25-2009, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingz

Is that a bonding screw in the neutral bar of a sub-panel?

Yes Sir, that was why I added Section 408.40

wingz · 10-25-2009, 07:24 AM

Home inspectors and engineers are licensed in VA by the DPOR.
For HI the regs are here:
http://www.dpor.virginia.gov/dporweb/asb_main.cfm
As for " electrical inspectors" we have our the regular ones that work for the city or county. I do not know what their qualifications demand. My local guy is a Master Electrician also.
Just found this:
http://www.vbcoa.org/

Joe Tedesco · 10-25-2009, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingz

Home inspectors and engineers are licensed in VA by the DPOR.
For HI the regs are here:
http://www.dpor.virginia.gov/dporweb/asb_main.cfm
As for " electrical inspectors" we have our the regular ones that work for the city or county. I do not know what their qualifications demand. My local guy is a Master Electrician also.
Just found this:
http://www.vbcoa.org/

Thanks wingz

This gets me to something I can use for now and will be collecting more as we go.

wildleg · 10-25-2009, 08:40 AM

I'm not familiar with your situation, but being that you are in a theater of operations, I find it doubtful that the ahj has the capability of adequately auditing the things that you would take for granted stateside. If you even know who the ahj is (GSA ?/DOD ?/ iraq govt ?) the best you are going to do is work your way partly up the chain of command before hitting a brick wall. They are throwing manpower at a problem to try to fix as much as possible, while getting shot at and blown up. You are most likely just going to do the best you can. Good luck and be safe. Love the posts - keep up the great work, let us know how this works out.

electures · 10-25-2009, 05:58 PM

Over here in the great police state of New Jersey, licensing of Code Officials is the responsibilty of the DCA licensing unit. See link.

http://www.state.nj.us/dca/codes/lic...it/index.shtml

Licensing requirements include, experience, education, certification exams. All licensing requirements can be found in the NJ Uniform Construction Code (Blue Book).

As for the green screw, can you say "ground loop, ground loop".

Be safe Joe

Joe Tedesco · 10-25-2009, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildleg

I'm not familiar with your situation, but being that you are in a theater of operations, I find it doubtful that the ahj has the capability of adequately auditing the things that you would take for granted stateside. If you even know who the ahj is (GSA ?/DOD ?/ iraq govt ?) the best you are going to do is work your way partly up the chain of command before hitting a brick wall. They are throwing manpower at a problem to try to fix as much as possible, while getting shot at and blown up. You are most likely just going to do the best you can. Good luck and be safe. Love the posts - keep up the great work, let us know how this works out.

wildleg:

I am in a situation that would make anyone else crawl into a corner and die and wait untl they carried me out on a stretcher!

The subject here will be better understood if you take a look at these pictures!

I will save the rest of my story for another time!

I know who the AHJ is, he was one of my students who attended a seminar in Winchester, VA last year, but he is not the real AHJ at the top who must be contacted when questions about defect notices arise; no matter how small they are.

Never had boots on the ground as they say!

So far I have remained under the wire. I am safe and have only a few days left before I go home.

Joe Tedesco · 10-25-2009, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electures

Over here in the great police state of New Jersey, licensing of Code Officials is the responsibilty of the DCA licensing unit. See link.

http://www.state.nj.us/dca/codes/lic...it/index.shtml

Licensing requirements include, experience, education, certification exams. All licensing requirements can be found in the NJ Uniform Construction Code (Blue Book).

As for the green screw, can you say "ground loop, ground loop".

Be safe Joe

Thank you Sir! This is where I will look for answers to my questions.

I will be traveling the circuit on what I had to deal with in open forum discussions, and lectures, etc.

I hope to start in the Boston, MA area at one of the meetings where the electrical industry meets.

ralph · 10-25-2009, 08:43 PM

The state of South Carolina has building inspectors. They are all very qualified, and need no oversight.
I think just about all of them got their jobs by sending 5 proofs of purchase from their Cracker Jack boxes.
Its scary.

RIVETER · 10-25-2009, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Tedesco

This is an issue that has to do with the lack of understanding related to the "System and MBJ"

See Section 408.40 Grounding of Panelboards in the 2008 NEC.

Questions:

Is there a way that someone can address concerns about persons who are portraying themselves as so called SME's “electrical inspectors” without proper recognized credentials, such as by being certified by some State, City, or Town, or by the IAEI or NFPA?

What is the procedure in your area?

Is there an official grievance body or process anywhere?

For instance, if an engineer without a license signed off on a drawing could they be reported to the appropriate licensing body?

I have not installed services for many years; But, are you saying that the code allows for the Neutral to be BONDED to the ground at a sub-panel? Just asking. Thanks.

electures · 10-25-2009, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Tedesco

Thank you Sir! This is where I will look for answers to my questions.

I will be traveling the circuit on what I had to deal with in open forum discussions, and lectures, etc.

I hope to start in the Boston, MA area at one of the meetings where the electrical industry meets.

When you get to South Jersey I would like to extend an invitation to attend the Southern MEIA (Municiple Electrical Inspectors Association) meeting in Galloway Twp. (next to Atlantic City). We meet third Tuesday evening every month. I am one of the instructors. PM me.

Take care!!

Joe Tedesco · 10-25-2009, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIVETER

I have not installed services for many years; But, are you saying that the code allows for the Neutral to be BONDED to the ground at a sub-panel? Just asking. Thanks.

RIVETER

No, that's the point! This has been done here on a regular basis; and it just makes me want to scream mudder fudker!

I am also wondering if this picture shows a place to wash feet or your azz?

I think there is a new 2011 NEC rule coming out for this and another tub for washing too. How in the heck can anyone squat so low if that's what is supposed to happen here?

Joe Tedesco · 10-25-2009, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electures

When you get to South Jersey I would like to extend an invitation to attend the Southern MEIA (Municiple Electrical Inspectors Association) meeting in Galloway Twp. (next to Atlantic City). We meet third Tuesday evening every month. I am one of the instructors. PM me.

Take care!!

Thanks for the invitation I will contact you via PM.

Do you know Harold Endean? He is an electrical inspector in NJ.

Tell me more about the association?

nolabama · 10-25-2009, 09:54 PM

joe its my understanding that americans are sitters and other peoples of the world (particularly in the desert regions your in) are squatters

i would assume that is a squatter terlet

wildleg · 10-25-2009, 09:58 PM

yeppers. that's a fancy one. I believe the one that's just a hole in the floor is known as a "bomb site"

nolabama · 10-25-2009, 10:00 PM

bomb site? we call em out houses round here

Joe Tedesco · 10-25-2009, 11:00 PM

... and the TP is an after thought for those who would not do without that roll and never shake hands with your left hand when you make contact with some one who just took a

!

RIVETER · 10-26-2009, 12:46 AM

Okay, Joe I get your point. Keep pushing it because I think that a lot of people do not understand, completely, about grounding and bonding.

Joe Tedesco · 10-26-2009, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIVETER

Okay, Joe I get your point. Keep pushing it because I think that a lot of people do not understand, completely, about grounding and bonding.

Very true! I helped Phil Simmons as a Co-Author on the "Soares Book on Grounding" for the IAEI version when first released back in the 90's.

I wonder if anyone has a copy, it was in black and white back then and was done using DOS!