jontar

Hi, Please don't call electricians indoor wireman as in alberta its completely different wireman only can work on 120/240 and 200 amps or less.

Anyways, I'm from Canada, where I think things are alittle different from the NEC to the CEC to start, aswell as in the trade, anyways reading this forum and others it appears that the highest voltage an electrician would work with in the states is 480 delta or 277/480 wye. I was just wondering if that is true, or do you have 347/600 wye, 600 delta, 720vac. Here in Alberta as a master industrial electrician working at a mill, we have 347/600 wye for lighting, heating, small motors (up to 500hp) then we have 4160 vac(for big motors(bigger than 500hp) and around the plant between small transformers) and final what comes out of our sub at our thermal plant 14400/25000 vac(we generate by burning byproduct and use util only as a back up) the 25kv is to feed around the site to 2500KVA transformers( we have (7) 2500kva trannys and many smaller like 500KVA trannys, including some 10KVA single phase cans on poles). Just wondering, down in the states if you would have this or if your electricians work 480 delta and under, and your lineman 480 and up. In CEC LV is 750volt and lower. In Alberta a Jman industrial Electrican can work up to 500kv (hot or cold) we do live(hot) switching on our sub with air breaks and OCR's and good old cut out switches and a lineman can only touch what the utility owns (poles, URD undergrounds). We own all our high voltage, even the stuff from the pole, right after the utility cut outs on their pole (its our 25kv cable, stress cones, ligting arrestors, hot line clamps, etc), thats the magic line drawn in the air the cut outs. Also a JMan and or a master(a Jman for atleast 3yrs, and another 2 tests) can work residential(120/240 single phase split), commericial up to (347/600 wye vac), industrial, instiltutional, High voltage as several sites have a combination of voltages (example a building with 600delta, with 120/208wye lighting panels)as we only have electricians(CEC trained guys), and lineman (utility guys that have no CEC training) and we also have this other trade which is a 2 yr upgrade if your an electrican or lineman, its called a power system electrican which is a electrican that works in utlity subs. In Alberta we have electricans that install 125vac receptacles,to electric draglines in openpit mining 4160vac feeds(example myself started as a res/comm electrician wiring houses and office towers, got my ticket (4yrs) worked high volts 25000vac and industrial to my masters working industrial/high volts, doing res jobs, wiring houses, on my days off) Just wonder once again if this is how it is in the states? thanks oh and yes for you ontario guys i know its different with your 301A/B and 442 (they ruined the trade and split it up) and yes they suck when they come out to alberta, and try and work because their res elec is only a 2 yrs. and there comm/indust guys never get trained in res or at all. Also for you lineman I have no problem going delta/delta wye/wye delta/wye wye/detla and scott T, single phase split phase we have all of these coonections at our site, except wye/wye. And of course we have a small open delta (we the electricians with our climbers and pole choking belts with our speeders and triple square drive wrenches,ground chains, pole band, shot gun stick and long stick using our digger truck, sucessful mounted sky pins, dead ends polys, stand offs, cans, guys, slack spans, 1 OCR and a set of cut outs fused at 6 amps ran in 2 #2 Alum HV(25kv on poles with crossarms down about a 2 miles and got a LV 57% three phase service out of it for a small shed)

randomkiller

Welcome to the forum, I'll get into that horizontal panel mounting issue when I have more time.

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drsparky

No restrictions based on voltage. Linemen work on lines in the air and we work on everything else. High voltage to no voltage (fiber).

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nitro71

In eastern WA the difference is that lineman are smart enough to know the safety procedures for working on medium and high voltage where as electricians are dumb enough that they think they know how to work on medium voltage safely without PPE, NFPA 70E or any training.

RIVETER

I have worked with both. I am an Inside Journeyman Wireman and pretty good at what I do...However I have a great deal of respect for the Linemen, as well.

RIVETER

Peter D

PLEASE use the return key once in a while. I'm not even going to bother reading all that.

jontar

Hi

once again it maybe different in the states, but here at our site anyways, we have to complete arc flash training ticketed or not not, even our apprentice did it even though he can't work hot at all, and to work hot you have to have atleast a supervisor that is certified, follow your limits of approuch (AOL) that is for every voltage level there is a distance to stay away, ypur SOPs (standard operating procedure) use proper rubber under leather glooves(there different voltage classes)test your personal equipment, test glooves by blowing them up , checking for holes, making sure the were sent out within last 6 months for dielectric testing etc , put on sleeves, set recloser to trip only once (this is done with a hotstick) it doesn't know if its your arm or a tree, carry out work with the bucket on digger truck,

on the ground for switching you sometimes have to put on a full suit they make you look like your a big mashmellow. this is done only in PDC's or Vaults because its indoors and if a fire ball cames rolling out your not in the open, and your what burns(as part of the arc flash training you watch horrible videos of both electricians and lineman getting burnt, usually losing arms/legs later or dying in hospitable) on a pole outside shot gun stick about 8 ft long this makes you climb but if the wind is strong you have to, or long stick if your lazy and not windy or its just a cutout blown.

if you have to apply personal grounds to isolate, first pull cutout, open OCR, open load break switches etc, place red or orange flag on pole, supervisor radios line open, worker pounds, first a temp ground rod or grounds to primary neutral then pole band( keeping it about 5 ft off the ground or atleast below your feet ( this puts you into the zone if climbing), then ground chains. (THIS IS FOR COLD WORK) where we are isolating a piece of line to fix (ground chains applied by stick, on all three phases and pole band, then check line with a cool little beeper, that has about 5-6 settings 240v-600kv it clamps on to the work end of the hot stick) line is called dead and isolated. go ahead and get your work done and quick because its an "outage"

or on underground, go to switching cube, open curcuit using stick, or if between pads that are not loop fed there is a switch inside the pad that will isolate the next downstream pads,then you have a pretty mat that has 4 corners to bond, this brings you"into the zone" once you pound temp rod and ground existing concentic( we only do underground cold because of the concentric neutral thing, I know theres a way to do it hot, we don't.) use the cool little splice kit, and cold shrink or tape if the crappy cold shrink doesn't work,

not bad for just being a industrial electrician, the line guys know this is the proper way to do it, keep it mind highest i,ve worked hot is 25kv 3phase or 14.4kv single phase, we don't do our 50000vdc hot(its an isolated system on our energy plant to take to solids out of the exhast gases in the stack and you only have to bypass afew things in the PLC to temp diable for repair) i don't work transmission subs (above 69kv)i work just on our distrubtion sub and distrubution 25kv 3 phase. I've seen alot of electricians take short cuts and i've seen alot of lineman take short cuts (example sometimes you don't have enough chains to go form line to band to ground so you just go across the lines and to primary neutral or the pole band, sometimes the pole band is not there, because its in the other truck, I find the older guys are sometimes the worst and sometimes the best)

"if you think I still don't know" ask a reasonable question and if it something we do or a procedure we did i'll answer it.

hardworkingstiff

Is there a question in that rant? I'm not sure.

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jontar

no, I'm just explaining to the lineman friend above, here in Alberta us industrail electricicans are trained very well in med voltage situations 4.2kv -69kv, I myself don't do transmission but several of my buds from the fort mcmuarry area do 69kv plus as electricians.

I guess what i'm wondering, and what has already been explained, was the difference is the states. i know what its is in canada, and its lineman work for utilities and do utility code stuff, they are allowed to make it up as they go along, one its outdoors and very little public would be harmed if their pole was to catch fire. two they are required to fix there system if it goes down


where as we electricians have to follow the CEC and have to have public safety number 1 not the power staying on as #1


i was just wondering if this is what it is down in the states, and all i get from a lineman is the answer like electricians play with 120, so I was just let him know that i'm trained just as highly in hot line tech as he is. he'll get to practise it more but if we have a power problem in the middle of the night on our dist sub or thermal plant our hot line crew myself included we be there with the proper and safe tech.

Peter D

Linemen and electricians are totally separate categories in the U.S. and are considered totally separate trades. There is no overlap whatsoever. Some electricians do work on MV and HV stuff but it's a very rare case for an electrician to have line work skills and vice versa.