Motion Sensors in parallel, energizing a coil? @$%!@#%$^2$#% - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum

Young SparkE BC · 04-22-2009, 02:22 AM

Hey, I'm new to this site, and have come here for some help. Any advice from experience would be great!

I have replaced 3 out side motion detector lights and some old contacts (15-20 yrs. old) that powered the lights on the sensors plus 5 more bulbs -all 100w halogen floods. The contacts were used because the combined load is too much for any one sensor. I replaced the motion lights with Heath/Zenith S-5318 motion lights. I also replaced 2 24v/AC momentary on/off switches and their low V latching relay. Now the trouble starts..........
The new motion sensors are are all wired in parallel with each other and the low-V latching relay. Any one device will supply a coil with 120v. The coil being energized, pulls a set of contacts closed that are rated for the load. So... the lights are activated by the motion sensors or the on/off push buttons in side the house... Sounds simple so far right? At first it worked, then it did not. I tried placing a bulb across the coil for some R but this as well only worked for a few weeks. Now they stick on! Will motion sensors with out a solid state device such as a triac work? I contacted Heath/Zenith and the Tech suggested their sensor replacement SL-5407 because it has a relay and not a triac. I am somewhat sure all this is caused by the load on the sensors. They don't like trying to energize a small inductive load (the coil)and not a larger resistive one (a flood light) . Any suggestions anybody???????????????????????????

vinster888 · 05-21-2009, 12:00 AM

i ran into the same problem. i went one further and used the burglar alarm to trigger all seven, a 3 way/4 way to control all seven, a single pole to control just one at a specific door along with the motion for all seven off of any one sensor. ended up disabling the motion sensors. i would like to make this work for the customer. seems a shame to get all the fancy stuff and then the stupid motion sensors want to cause an issue?

Dennis Alwon · 05-21-2009, 05:46 AM

I had done something similar over 12 years ago and it worked fine. Cheap motion sensors from Lowes with a small contactor and never had a problem.

vinster888 · 05-21-2009, 03:47 PM

tech has changed a lot in the past 10 yrs. not always for the better.

mcclary's electrical · 06-15-2009, 11:49 AM

Years ago each motion would have contacts, therefore if you tripped one of the other motions,,,,,,you were simply "backfeeding an open set of contacts in the rest of the motions. But nowadays there are no contacts in those motions,,it's all solid state. So every time you trip one,,,it's backfeeding the rest of the motions. It might could be stopped with a transistor, or maybe a different motion with relays.

vinster888 · 06-15-2009, 07:47 PM

thats the best answer i heard all day. clear and informative. now to find stuff like that today

georgemun · 02-23-2010, 02:57 PM

Hey My son works for a electrical supply house. He sells a brand of out door security lights , one lights they all light.They hook in as a parell circuit. As a mater of fact their are described as being in parell. Sorry dont remember brand ,they run around 120-150.00 dollars.If i talk to him ,ill repost the brand name.

Shockdoc · 03-07-2010, 04:05 PM

I came across a system where an electrician had a illegal tap in a mast entering the building through a clamp, fed to a disconnect and tied to a contactor . the contactor was energized from a relay in the attic that was N/C and wired to a motion sensor that sat above the meterpan. under further investyigation i learned that stepping up to the meterpan interupted the illegal tap panel that fed the centeral A/C, and electrical appliances. The customer paid me an extra $200 to forget about what I saw.

georgemun · 03-07-2010, 06:05 PM

Hello, Talked to my son, the outdoor lights are called Stealth, They are sold under the brand name RAB. Georgemun

volty · 03-07-2010, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shockdoc

I came across a system where an electrician had a illegal tap in a mast entering the building through a clamp, fed to a disconnect and tied to a contactor . the contactor was energized from a relay in the attic that was N/C and wired to a motion sensor that sat above the meterpan. under further investyigation i learned that stepping up to the meterpan interupted the illegal tap panel that fed the centeral A/C, and electrical appliances. The customer paid me an extra $200 to forget about what I saw.

Do you think you'll remember again once the money wears off?

Shockdoc · 03-07-2010, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by volty

Do you think you'll remember again once the money wears off?

Na, they've become loyal customers and have referred me to many. I researched the former homeowner who was a local licensed electrician and is now retired in the keys, very talented guy in my book.

LawnGuyLandSparky · 03-07-2010, 09:37 PM

A real estate investor bought a 2-family house and replaced the service with 2 x 200a upgrade. The utility wouldn't set the 2nd meter because the pans weren't permanently labeled. When he rented out the units the tenant in unit 2 never called the utility for hookup because the bypass meter was naturally, bypassed. This went on for a few years and neither the tenant nor the landlord could be held responsible as both claimed ignorance.

Shockdoc · 03-07-2010, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LawnGuyLandSparky

A real estate investor bought a 2-family house and replaced the service with 2 x 200a upgrade. The utility wouldn't set the 2nd meter because the pans weren't permanently labeled. When he rented out the units the tenant in unit 2 never called the utility for hookup because the bypass meter was naturally, bypassed. This went on for a few years and neither the tenant nor the landlord could be held responsible as both claimed ignorance.

I have no sympathy for the utility companies, the ceo's and the shareholders these days. I am in LIPA jurisdiction, you probably have seen the stickers inside 200 amp bypass meters that pertains only to our jurisdiction. We pay excessively high rates and deal with some pretty stringent service requirements.

LawnGuyLandSparky · 03-08-2010, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shockdoc

I have no sympathy for the utility companies, the ceo's and the shareholders these days. I am in LIPA jurisdiction, you probably have seen the stickers inside 200 amp bypass meters that pertains only to our jurisdiction. We pay excessively high rates and deal with some pretty stringent service requirements.

I agree with high rates...

Stringent?

I'll take some photos... MOST upgrades are not inspected and LIPA has no idea they were done...

Did you know, you will NEVER see the same meter reader more than once?