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08-09-2009, 07:29 AM
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#1
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 22
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9 unit plus house 800 amp 1 phase service
Ok recalculation 3 units @ 6912 va 3 units @ 11880 va 3 units @ 10,800 va # is total 4 the 3 units. Plus a house panel I am figureing 10,000 va 4 electric dryers 3,00 for washers @ 100 percent.
No A/C or Hot water but owner is not sure. I would like to have allowence for the future.
9- 100 amp panels for units 1 - 100 amp house
600 Amp single phase servie 120/240 or would u go 3 phase 120 / 208
Does this give me future room for ac per unit avg unit is 1,200 sq '
Last edited by gemini13; 08-09-2009 at 09:22 AM.
Reason: recalculated
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08-09-2009, 07:34 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Miami Fla.
Posts: 531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gemini13
I was thinking that 2 300 per phase should be good for 800 amps .
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Thats good for 570A. Whats the calculated load?
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08-09-2009, 07:39 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: central east coast us
Posts: 810
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400 Cu if you're using the 310.15 B 6 table (2005). but you might wanna do the load calc and see if you can go smaller.
__________________
Chuck Norris sleeps with a night light. Not because Chuck Norris is afraid of the dark, but the dark is afraid of Chuck Norris.
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08-09-2009, 08:02 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Miami Fla.
Posts: 531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildleg
400 Cu if you're using the 310.15 B 6 table (2005).
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You can apply this table to parallel conductors?
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08-09-2009, 08:21 AM
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#5
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Not Peter D
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: South Eastern MA
Posts: 2,929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Kennedy
Whats the calculated load?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildleg
but you might wanna do the load calc and see if you can go smaller.
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When you have a single service disconnecting means the conductors can not really be reduced in size other then what 240.4(B) allows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Kennedy
You can apply this table to parallel conductors?
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IMO, no, not at all.
However Don G. has posted some CMP statements to the contrary. I would talk to the inspector before using T310.15(B)(6) to choose parallels from.
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08-09-2009, 08:44 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: central east coast us
Posts: 810
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hmmm, I wasn't sure, but I thought you could use it up to 800 (oops ? )
__________________
Chuck Norris sleeps with a night light. Not because Chuck Norris is afraid of the dark, but the dark is afraid of Chuck Norris.
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08-09-2009, 09:20 AM
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#7
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Beautiful Cumberland Valley, in PA
Posts: 6,942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gemini13
I dont have know what sizw wire i need to parallel to disconnect. I dont have code book handy. I was thinking that 2 300 per phase should be good for 800 amps . I was thinking of running it in two 3' masts sisde by side into the disconnect.
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You really going to a disconnect first, or to a CT can? Just wondering. I know that some PoCo's put a CT rack on the mast, near the weatherhead. I was mostly wondering where your CT's were going.
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08-09-2009, 09:22 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: us
Posts: 700
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310.15 (b) 6 is for single family dwellings. It does not apply here.
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08-09-2009, 09:34 AM
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#9
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Not Peter D
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: South Eastern MA
Posts: 2,929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDShunk
You really going to a disconnect first, or to a CT can? Just wondering. I know that some PoCo's put a CT rack on the mast, near the weatherhead. I was mostly wondering where your CT's were going.
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Why would there be any CTs?
Utility >>> 800 amp service disconnect >>> 10 meters >>> sub panels
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08-09-2009, 09:35 AM
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#10
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Beautiful Cumberland Valley, in PA
Posts: 6,942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Badger
Why would there be any CTs?
Utility >>> 800 amp service disconnect >>> 10 meters >>> sub panels
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I was thinking 9 bedroom house with one big service. Duh. 9 units, plus a house. Okay, I see.
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08-09-2009, 09:35 AM
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#11
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Licensed Pro
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rahway, NJ
Posts: 2,792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcclary's electrical
310.15 (b) 6 is for single family dwellings. It does not apply here.
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It applies to two-family and multi-family dwellings too, but not for any triple-phase dwelling services.
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There's only one way to succeed in anything, and that is to give it everything.
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08-09-2009, 09:36 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Miami Fla.
Posts: 531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcclary's electrical
310.15 (b) 6 is for single family dwellings. It does not apply here.
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Quote:
310.15(B)(6) 120/240-Volt, 3-Wire, Single-Phase Dwelling Services and Feeders.
For individual dwelling units of one-family, two-family, and multifamily dwellings, conductors, as listed in Table 310.15(B)(6), shall be permitted as 120/240-volt, 3-wire, single-phase service-entrance conductors, service-lateral conductors, and feeder conductors that serve as the main power feeder to each dwelling unit and are installed in raceway or cable with or without an equipment grounding conductor.
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.........
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08-09-2009, 09:38 AM
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#13
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Not Peter D
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: South Eastern MA
Posts: 2,929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcclary's electrical
310.15 (b) 6 is for single family dwellings. It does not apply here.
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Damn good point, he can not use that table for the service conductors. If the service remains single phase 120/240 he can use it for each units feeder (other than the landlord panel)
But in my area the power company will not supply an 800 amp single phase service.
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08-09-2009, 09:40 AM
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#14
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Not Peter D
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: South Eastern MA
Posts: 2,929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnettica
It applies to two-family and multi-family dwellings too, but not for any triple-phase dwelling services.
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No, not for the service conductors, only the feeders to each unit.
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08-09-2009, 09:42 AM
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#15
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Not Peter D
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: South Eastern MA
Posts: 2,929
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Chris,
Quote:
310.15(B)(6) 120/240-Volt, 3-Wire, Single-Phase Dwelling Services and Feeders.
For individual dwelling units of one-family, two-family, and multifamily dwellings .......
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08-09-2009, 09:42 AM
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#16
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Beautiful Cumberland Valley, in PA
Posts: 6,942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Badger
No, not for the service conductors, only the feeders to each unit.
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Right. "For the individual dwelling units of... multifamily dwellings" That pretty much limits you to using that table for the conductors from the load side of each tenant meter to the tenant panel.
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08-09-2009, 09:48 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Miami Fla.
Posts: 531
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Ah, I see, thanks guys.
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08-09-2009, 09:48 AM
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#18
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Licensed Pro
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rahway, NJ
Posts: 2,792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Badger
No, not for the service conductors, only the feeders to each unit.
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So I understand this fully...
120/ 208 SEC's are sized to T310.16 but the feeders to each individual "sub panel" can be sized to 310.15 (B)(6).
Good?
__________________
There's only one way to succeed in anything, and that is to give it everything.
Vince Lombardi
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08-09-2009, 09:52 AM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Miami Fla.
Posts: 531
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Did anyone notice that the OP edited post 1?
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08-09-2009, 09:53 AM
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#20
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Not Peter D
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: South Eastern MA
Posts: 2,929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnettica
So I understand this fully...
120/ 208 SEC's are sized to T310.16 but the feeders to each individual "sub panel" can be sized to 310.15 (B)(6).
Good?
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If the service is 208Y/120 you can not use that table at all.
If the service is 120/240 it can be used for each feeder to each individual dwelling unit but the service conductors supplying all these feeders will have to be sized per 310.16
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