Hey! A commercial panel :) - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum

220/221 · 09-28-2009, 09:53 PM

Finally a change of pace.

Church kitchen remodel. Another contractor recently upgraded the service to 600 amp. He installed a 400 amp panel behind the main panel and left a couple of spare 200 amp breakers for future use.

The GC got ahead of himself and got us in before any plans were approved by the city. We said "bad idea" but he said "do it". We pulled in a few new 20 amp circuits and one new 50A oven circuit from the existing 400 amp panel. Our "field calculations" said it would work

The city of course wants real engineering (duh) and the engineer wants a new 200 amp panel (change order

) All the underground feeding the kitchen area land under the old 400 amp panel which sits directly behind the 800. Engineer first wants the new 200 in the kitchen area, about 30' away in the wrong directiopn. Hoops are jumped thru and engineer finally says "draw it the way you want and I will stamp it".

All circuits will now land in the new panel via the 12x12 jb and a 3 day installation became a one (short) day installation. Except for the panel, all materials were pulled out of stock

It was a good day.

PS. I have 29" width clearance on the new panel. The obstruction is a only wimpy little shelf so I so I left it so I can see how picky the inspector is going to be.

william1978 · 09-28-2009, 09:56 PM

Looks good.

micromind · 09-28-2009, 10:08 PM

Nice work, 220. Looks good.

I like C/H panels, as well as their switchgear. Well-made and solid. Sort of a bear to add breakers to if they're hot and you don't have a 5/16" magnetic nutdriver though.

Rob

Peter D · 09-28-2009, 10:19 PM

Finally! Something different for a change!!

220/221 · 09-28-2009, 10:32 PM

Quote:

like C/H panels, as well as their switchgear. Well-made and solid

The 200 amp breaker lugs were only about 3/4" deep and used 1/4" hex wrench. I didn't like that.

The new "one screw" door style seems promising but I not yet sure. I messed with it for a while trying to get it closed.

The studs for the neutral and ground buses were about 1/4" too close to the edge of the can and the socket extension hit the can and wouldn't go in straight. A minor issue but still, you think they would install one before they started production.

The stand off mounts for the 200 amp breakers look like about #6 gauge and I have to run 4/0 ?

Quote:

Finally! Something different for a change!!

I will try to work in a couple of snap in bushings for you tomorrow

Magnettica · 09-30-2009, 11:25 AM

I was gonna say that nipple appeared to be undersized but then I opened up the book, did a Kcmil calculation with the #6 EGC, and you're good to go. Funny because if you use Annex C there's no way (4) 3/0 coppers would be allowed using a 2" nipple.

Looks nice.

mcclary's electrical · 09-30-2009, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnettica

I was gonna say that nipple appeared to be undersized but then I opened up the book, did a Kcmil calculation with the #6 EGC, and you're good to go. Funny because if you use Annex C there's no way (4) 3/0 coppers would be allowed using a 2" nipple.

Looks nice.

Annex C (5) 3/0 thhn or thwn in 2"

goose134 · 09-30-2009, 04:47 PM

Thank goodnes! Nice to have a little variety. I'm not sold on CH's new door setup. You have to work them like the Fonz. Whack the right corner and ....aaaaaaaayyyy.

Not mechanically important but my one criticism would be the connectors on the JB. Other than that, aces.

mcclary's electrical · 09-30-2009, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 220/221

The 200 amp breaker lugs were only about 3/4" deep and used 1/4" hex wrench. I didn't like that.

The new "one screw" door style seems promising but I not yet sure. I messed with it for a while trying to get it closed.

The studs for the neutral and ground buses were about 1/4" too close to the edge of the can and the socket extension hit the can and wouldn't go in straight. A minor issue but still, you think they would install one before they started production.

The stand off mounts for the 200 amp breakers look like about #6 gauge and I have to run 4/0 ?

I will try to work in a couple of snap in bushings for you tomorrow

He's talking about the setscrews not turned the same way, I think.
Second, there's alot of copper showing on that breaker. IMO

220/221 · 09-30-2009, 06:43 PM

Quote:

I was gonna say that nipple appeared to be undersized but then I opened up the book

2.5" nipple. I pulled it from my truck stock along with the two plastic bushings

Quote:

Not mechanically important but my one criticism would be the connectors on the JB.

I did it that way to keep myself from getting too anal retentive. I intended to land them straight but but when they locked tight in that configuration I just let it go

Quote:

Second, there's alot of copper showing on that breaker. IMO

I agree but

Quote:

The 200 amp breaker lugs were only about 3/4" deep

I'm not kidding. The lugs were very shallow. I could have cut it and restripped it but my motto is "never go back". And once the first one had copper showing I decided to make a matching set.

Also, the EE specified #4 ground. I didn't bother to call him on it because it was such a short piece that came off the scrap pile but, did something change in 08???

Magnettica · 09-30-2009, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcclary's electrical

Annex C (5) 3/0 thhn or thwn in 2"

I must not have had my coffee yet when I wrote that!

Magnettica · 09-30-2009, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 220/221

Also, the EE specified #4 ground. I didn't bother to call him on it because it was such a short piece that came off the scrap pile but, did something change in 08???

200 amp circuit breaker right?

#6 copper minimum, Table 250.122

mcclary's electrical · 09-30-2009, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnettica

I must not have had my coffee yet when I wrote that!

I do the same thing, I gotta remind myself to wake up before typing. I have MANY times, typed something, only to regret it, or think of something to add to it one hour later.

seo · 09-30-2009, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnettica

I was gonna say that nipple appeared to be undersized but then I opened up the book, did a Kcmil calculation with the #6 EGC, and you're good to go. Funny because if you use Annex C there's no way (4) 3/0 coppers would be allowed using a 2" nipple.

Looks nice.

Why would you use Annex C for nipple fill? Chapter 9 tables note (1) Annex C is for number of conductors in trade sizes of conduit or tubing and if over 2 conductors 40% conduit fill is max. Use note # (4) for nipples and you can fill nipple up to 60% with no adjustment factors.

Peter D · 09-30-2009, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 220/221

Also, the EE specified #4 ground. I didn't bother to call him on it because it was such a short piece that came off the scrap pile but, did something change in 08???

No, just an engineer using the wrong table.

Magnettica · 09-30-2009, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seo

Why would you use Annex C for nipple fill? Chapter 9 tables note (1) Annex C is for number of conductors in trade sizes of conduit or tubing and if over 2 conductors 40% conduit fill is max. Use note # (4) for nipples and you can fill nipple up to 60% with no adjustment factors.

Thanks.

seo · 09-30-2009, 10:00 PM

You are welcome.

220/221 · 09-30-2009, 10:33 PM

It's "you're" welcome.

Sincerely, Peter

Peter D · 10-01-2009, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 220/221

It's "you're" welcome.

Sincerely, Peter

lynx82 · 10-01-2009, 12:26 AM

looks good, those crooked connectors do take away from it IMO. That is what people will see and make assumptions based on what is right in front of them. I would take the one minute to line them up, but to each his own.