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Old 07-28-2010, 07:47 PM   #1
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Default How far can you take your service entrance wires into a dwelling?

I just finish putting in a service in a basement of a home. I had to bring the USE thru the house so I didnt have to trench so far and up size my wire. I put it in pvc in the house and had dual rated wire rhw-2 so it can be in conduit and inside. I came out of a meter panel comb so the wire is fused at 200 amps. I had been taught that you can run fused service entrance wires in a house as far as you need as long as it is fused. The inspector was hesitant to sign off saying that it should be terminated with in 5 feet from entering the house. We run SER all over in a house and that doesnt matter why would this be any diff? Any thoughts?


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Old 07-28-2010, 07:55 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raker.robert View Post
The inspector was hesitant to sign off saying that it should be terminated with in 5 feet from entering the house.
On the LOAD side of a main breaker??? I hope he was joking.

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Old 07-28-2010, 07:57 PM   #3
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The panel was a main breaker panel?
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Old 07-28-2010, 07:58 PM   #4
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Sounds like you are both a bit confused by 230.70(A)(1). See the definitions of service entrance conductors in 100. What you are describing are feeders.

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Old 07-28-2010, 08:17 PM   #5
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Now I am confused.

Quote:
I came out of a meter panel comb so the wire is fused at 200 amps.
You said there was a main disconnect outside?
If so then Chris is right that this is a feeder and there is NO restriction on distance.

Is this your situation?
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:19 PM   #6
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You said there was a main disconnect outside?
If so then Chris is right that this is a feeder and there is NO restriction on distance.
I agree with Chris and Speedy.
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Old 07-29-2010, 07:26 PM   #7
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Thanks guys you set the light bulb off in my head I should have known that. When I was speaking with the ispector I was drawing a blank but I knew that I was right. Yes it is a feeder.
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Old 07-29-2010, 08:20 PM   #8
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I thought USE wasn't allowed indoors - the sheathing isn't fire rated. right ? 338.12 B 1.

That makes the answer 0 feet indoors.
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Old 07-30-2010, 12:17 PM   #9
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I looked on the outer jacket and it was rated rhw and rhw-2 also which allows it to be indoors. I thought that for the most part USE is rated that way. We use it often to go from the meter and no more then 5' inside in the dwelling.
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Old 07-30-2010, 01:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raker.robert View Post
I looked on the outer jacket and it was rated rhw and rhw-2 also which allows it to be indoors. I thought that for the most part USE is rated that way. We use it often to go from the meter and no more then 5' inside in the dwelling.
rhw-2 and rhw must be installed as part of a recognized wiring method to be used in a home. It can't be just a dual listed USE type of cable without an overall jacket. If it was SER then you would be OK.

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Old 07-30-2010, 01:15 PM   #11
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It was in 2'' pvc I guess im not following you with the "recognized wiring method".
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Old 07-30-2010, 02:56 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raker.robert View Post
It was in 2'' pvc I guess im not following you with the "recognized wiring method".
2" PVC would be a recognized wiring method in accordance with Chapter 3 of the NEC.

What I was getting at is you could not just run the USE cable without putting it in a raceway inside the home.

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Old 08-07-2010, 10:57 AM   #13
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225.31 Disconnecting Means.
Means shall be provided for disconnecting all ungrounded conductors that supply or pass through the building or structure.
Buildings on college campuses, multibuilding industrial facilities, and multibuilding commercial facilities are permitted to be supplied by secondary loop supply (secondary selective) networks, provided that documented switching procedures are established. These switching procedures must establish a method to safely operate switches for the facility during maintenance and during alternative supply and emergency supply conditions. Keyed interlock systems are often used to reduce the likelihood of inappropriate switching procedures that could result in hazardous conditions.
225.32 Location.
The disconnecting means shall be installed either inside or outside of the building or structure served or where the conductors pass through the building or structure. The disconnecting means shall be at a readily accessible location nearest the point of entrance of the conductors. For the purposes of this section, the requirements in 230.6 shall be utilized.
Exception No. 1: For installations under single management, where documented safe switching procedures are established and maintained for disconnection, and where the installation is monitored by qualified individuals, the disconnecting means shall be permitted to be located elsewhere on the premises.
Exception No. 2: For buildings or other structures qualifying under the provisions of Article 685, the disconnecting means shall be permitted to be located elsewhere on the premises.
Exception No. 3: For towers or poles used as lighting standards, the disconnecting means shall be permitted to be located elsewhere on the premises.
Exception No. 4: For poles or similar structures used only for support of signs installed in accordance with Article 600, the disconnecting means shall be permitted to be located elsewhere on the premises.

The basic requirement on locating the disconnecting means for a feeder or branch circuit supplying a structure is essentially the same as that specified for services in 230.70(A), but an important difference applies to feeder and branch-circuit sources. Unlike a premises supplied by a service, where a building or structure is supplied by a feeder or branch circuit, there always has to be a feeder or branch circuit disconnecting means at the building or structure supplied unless one of the conditions in Exception No. 1 through Exception No. 4 can be applied. Particularly for campus-style facilities supplied by a single utility service, the service disconnecting means may be remote from the buildings or structures supplied. In such installations, the supply conductors to the buildings or structures are feeders or branch circuits, and the main requirement of this section is that the feeder or branch-circuit disconnecting means is to be located inside or outside the building or structure supplied, at the point nearest to where
the supply conductors enter the building or structure. This requirement applies to conductors that supply a building and to conductors that pass through a building.
This requirement ensures that, where the service disconnecting means is remote from a building or structure, there is a disconnecting means for the feeder or branch circuit located at the building or structure to facilitate ready disconnection of the power. Outside disconnecting means are not required to be physically attached to the building or structure supplied, as would be the case with feeder-supplied outside freestanding switchgear located at the building or structure. In addition, this disconnecting means requirement is modified by the rules in 700.12(B)(6), 701.11(B)(5), and 702.11 for emergency, legally required standby, and optional standby feeders supplied by an outdoor generator.

(If the meter combo is on the side of the house you are O.K. , but if it is out on a pole or structure you would have to have a disconnect on the outside or on the inside where conductors pass through unless the panel is mounted with in the distance the AHJ determines. It is up to his discresion, I like to see the panel with-in 6' with a main breaker. If you mount a disconnect and then run to the center of the dwelling you can use a main lug panel. Read the above article it says branch circuit or feeder.)
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Old 08-08-2010, 07:57 AM   #14
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Mayfair garden apts, Commack,NY bldg 7 . constructed 1964. I don't know how this is legal, a 50' run of unfused 300 amp feeders were installed in galvanived conduit inside the finished basement cieling from the pad transformer to the main fused service switch. Are there any exceptions written or unwritten that would permit such an exception to the five foot rule that would permit this form of an installation? And no the conduit was not encased in cement.
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Old 08-08-2010, 12:54 PM   #15
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Shockdoc, the 5' rule must be a local rule as there is no specified distance in the NEC. In WA we can take unfused conductors 15' inside a structure.
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Old 08-08-2010, 01:13 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Shockdoc, the 5' rule must be a local rule as there is no specified distance in the NEC. In WA we can take unfused conductors 15' inside a structure.
As per local rule we can run service feeders unfused if encased in 3" of cement or buried in conduit under the slab. The restriction is no more than 5' of seu or conduit exposed or concealed unfused out here, some often get a unwritten pass thru a crawlspace( strapping se cable to bottom of joist) . There is too much competition and too little jobs and money out this way these days, I see many pushing the envelope to see how far they can go.

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