Name Plate on Finnish Sauna - Page 2 - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum

flashmn · 03-28-2009, 11:07 PM

OOPS correction a 25 (30) & a 50

electricista · 03-29-2009, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flashmn

The listed ones that I have hooked up that say X+Y kw have two heating elements. Ergo 1ea 4kw and 1ea 8 kw element. 4kw divided by 240 =16.66amps X 125% = 20.833amps. 8kw divided by 240v = 33.33A x 125% = 41.66A. So you need a 20A & a 50 A ckt for a listed sauna heater.

Does a sauna require 125%? I am not certain that is true.

flashmn · 03-29-2009, 09:31 AM

See 424.22E (2005NEC) A sauna heater is a fixed space heater.

flashmn · 03-29-2009, 09:36 AM

Also see 210.20A it is a continuous load.

electricista · 03-29-2009, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flashmn

See 424.22E (2005NEC) A sauna heater is a fixed space heater.

I don't see a sauna as a fixed heater but as an appliance and I don't consider it as a continuous load. Again just a thought and I may be way off.

steelersman · 03-29-2009, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electricista

I don't see a sauna as a fixed heater but as an appliance and I don't consider it as a continuous load. Again just a thought and I may be way off.

I haven't looked at the code articles, but I was also questioning that as well in my mind when he posted that 125% rule, but it wasn't important enough for me to look in the book. But I don't think it applies.

MDShunk · 03-29-2009, 02:24 PM

Certainly the thermostats will cycle some or all of the elements off and on. If they thing was continuous, it would heat up until it burst into flame.

Q: Do these saunas get a little water line plumbed to them or am I thinking about something else? I know one of those thingamajigs is steamy and another type is dry. Myself, I try to stay out of hot places if I can help it.

Chris Kennedy · 03-29-2009, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDShunk

Myself, I try to stay out of hot places if I can help it.

Me too.

electricista · 03-29-2009, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Kennedy

Me too.

I don't blame you.

MDShunk · 03-29-2009, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Kennedy

Me too.

I guess some people get some benefit from being in a sauna, but for me it doesn't add up. "You want to what? Go in someplace really freaking hot and sweat out a gallon? Knock yourself out. I'll be over here in the air conditioning."

flashmn · 03-29-2009, 10:05 PM

All fixed space heaters have some sort of t'stat or they all would "burst into flames". 424.1 "This article covers fixed electric equipment used for space heating". 424.3 (B) Fixed electric space heating equipment shall be considered a continuous load.

electricista · 03-30-2009, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flashmn

All fixed space heaters have some sort of t'stat or they all would "burst into flames". 424.1 "This article covers fixed electric equipment used for space heating". 424.3 (B) Fixed electric space heating equipment shall be considered a continuous load.

I believe we all understand that and the section you posted. It is a matter of definition. Is the unit a space heater or an appliance. A range has elements and is an appliance.

Quote:

424.1 Scope.
This article covers fixed electric equipment used for space heating. For the purpose of this article, heating equipment shall include heating cable, unit heaters, boilers, central systems, or other approved fixed electric space-heating equipment. This article shall not apply to process heating and room air conditioning.

So what is process heating? My gut says that 424 is about furnaces, baseboard heaters etc. Again, I am not certain on this but it is a gut feeling.

steelersman · 03-30-2009, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electricista

I am not certain on this but it is a gut feeling.

You have a gut?

electricista · 03-30-2009, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelersman

You have a gut?

I bet you didn't think guts could talk, did you?

Jupe Blue · 06-03-2009, 01:34 AM

Well, I never did get sent back to wire the sauna. My shop sent another electrician. He said he wired it on a 2 pole 40 amp breaker. He said that dual elements would not be on simultaneously so the 40 amp would be enough.

He did mention that there was some sort of disconnect/control panel so maybe that kept the elements from coming on at the same time.

Passed inspection, but the job was a full basement remodel but who knows if the inspector really looked at the sauna closely.

I hate when I don't get to finish the job... I don't like knowing all the details (which he couldn't give me).

steelersman · 06-03-2009, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jupe Blue

I don't like knowing all the details (which he couldn't give me).

I hope you meant that you don't like NOT knowing all the details, cause I sure would want to know them all.

flashmn · 06-03-2009, 08:35 AM

FWIW the local AHJs consider a sauna heater a appliance if it has a timer to shut it off & a fixed space heater if it doesn't.

Jupe Blue · 06-03-2009, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelersman

I hope you meant that you don't like NOT knowing all the details, cause I sure would want to know them all.

Oops, yes, I want all the details. Makes me crazy if I don't get to finish the job and never know the outcome.

Dennis Alwon · 06-04-2009, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flashmn

FWIW the local AHJs consider a sauna heater a appliance if it has a timer to shut it off & a fixed space heater if it doesn't.

Interesting, based on what I wonder? I am getting ready to wire a 6000 watt sauna and the nameplate is 240 volts with a min cir ampacity of 25 amps. This unit has a thermostat built in however the math shows 6000/240= 25 amps. #10 wire is specified as minimum size. 125% does not enter into the equation.

flashmn · 06-19-2009, 09:34 PM

With a timer the unit will shut off after a certain amount of time. Without the timer it could run and keep the temp of the room at a fixed temp. indeff. ie a fixed space heater.