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03-18-2012, 04:05 PM
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#1
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Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ma
Posts: 12
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Proper grounding of a 3 family dwelling.
I'm gonna be changing a friends service which is a 3 family house. I'll be adding a fourth panel as a house panel. I'll also be running a 200 amp line to a 4 gang meter socket then inside feeding 4 panels 100 amp main with a number 2 Seu. I'm almost 100% sure how to properly ground inside an out but I'd perfer to check with other electricians to be sure. Haven't done residensual in a few years. Please let me kno what u all think as to the grounding. Thanks
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03-18-2012, 04:28 PM
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#2
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 11,981
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There are many ways so how about you tell us what you are planning to do.
BTW, welcome to the forum
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03-18-2012, 06:15 PM
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#3
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PGW Professional
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rahway, NJ
Posts: 12,773
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$9800
Last edited by Magnettica; 03-18-2012 at 10:52 PM.
Reason: Edited to reflect Ma. pricing
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03-18-2012, 06:27 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: PA
Posts: 423
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Dont you need a Masters License to work in MA?
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How can you have any pudding if you dont eat your meat
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03-18-2012, 06:38 PM
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#5
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NRA Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wonderful Northern Minnesota
Posts: 4,262
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I'd use wire to ground with. That's the way I do it most of the time.
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When "deleted" called the Seals, they killed Bin Laden. When the Seals called "deleted", he denied them.
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03-18-2012, 07:15 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: MA
Posts: 598
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BurtiElectric
Dont you need a Masters License to work in MA?
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No, you can pull permits with a journeyman license in MA. You can also employ 1 apprentice. There are many guys that run their own business with nothing more than a journeyman license.
A master's license allows you to hire journeymen, and you can have 1 apprentice for every journeyman license you employ. Job ratios are 1:1 also.
You actually can not work with the tools with only a master's license. If you have a master's license you still have to hold a journeyman's license to do work.
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03-18-2012, 07:21 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: MA
Posts: 598
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jdawg523
I'm gonna be changing a friends service which is a 3 family house. I'll be adding a fourth panel as a house panel. I'll also be running a 200 amp line to a 4 gang meter socket then inside feeding 4 panels 100 amp main with a number 2 Seu. I'm almost 100% sure how to properly ground inside an out but I'd perfer to check with other electricians to be sure. Haven't done residensual in a few years. Please let me kno what u all think as to the grounding. Thanks
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Drive 2 rods and run GEC to meter socket. Bond metal piping systems and anything else you have that is required. Pretty basic. Depending where your panels are located you probably need 4 wires from meters to panels with mains in meter socket.
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03-18-2012, 07:53 PM
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#8
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976-EVIL
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: State of Euphoria
Posts: 13,408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EBFD6
Drive 2 rods and run GEC to meter socket. Bond metal piping systems and anything else you have that is required. Pretty basic. Depending where your panels are located you probably need 4 wires from meters to panels with mains in meter socket.
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Many power companies won't allow a GEC in the meter base.
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03-18-2012, 08:19 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: MA
Posts: 598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcclary's electrical
Many power companies won't allow a GEC in the meter base.
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Not an issue in Massachusetts, which is where the OP is from
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03-18-2012, 08:20 PM
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#10
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Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ma
Posts: 12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon
There are many ways so how about you tell us what you are planning to do.
BTW, welcome to the forum
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Lol
Well I plan on obv using ground rods to meters. An inside I'm obv jumping out water main an then bringing #4 to closes water pipe an off that #4 I'm putting ground bar above panels an bringing #6 I believe to each panel. Someone work with said I had to run a separate # from water pipe to meter sockets. Never heard about that before. Unless I can do that instead of having ground rods? It's a city house so I barely have room for one ground rod anyway. Let me kno what u think.
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03-18-2012, 09:31 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: kentucky
Posts: 8,018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcclary's electrical
Many power companies won't allow a GEC in the meter base.
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Do you know why they won't allow it?.That GEC would protect the building if the poco had a short circuit problem at THEIR service transformer...or lightning for that matter.
Last edited by RIVETER; 03-18-2012 at 09:35 PM.
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03-18-2012, 09:54 PM
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#12
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Registered Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Atlanta, Ga/Hamilton, Al
Posts: 4,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RIVETER
Do you know why they won't allow it?.That GEC would protect the building if the poco had a short circuit problem at THEIR service transformer...or lightning for that matter.
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Some don't allow it because they tag their meters and don't want you in there. If your ground wire is in there, you might need access to it.
On the flip side, some POCOs won't have the ground any other place but the meter socket. So.... it's best to check with them first.
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03-18-2012, 10:25 PM
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#13
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 11,981
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If you have a 4 gang meter base and the water lines are connected together than you can run a #4 copper gec to the water pipe with 5' of where it enters the building-- assuming it is metal pipe entering the building. You will also need 2 rods spaced at least 6 feet apart unless you can show 25 ohms from one rod-- I doubt you can.
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03-18-2012, 10:42 PM
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#14
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PGW Professional
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rahway, NJ
Posts: 12,773
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If the OP is using the water pipe as an electrode, he must bring the #4 cu to within 5' of where it enters the building, not to "closes water pipe." And we can assume this because he plans to supplement this set up with a pair of ground rods.
Quote:
250.52 Grounding Electrodes.
(A) Electrodes Permitted for Grounding.
(1) Metal Underground Water Pipe. A metal underground
water pipe in direct contact with the earth for 3.0 m
(10 ft) or more (including any metal well casing bonded to
the pipe) and electrically continuous (or made electrically
continuous by bonding around insulating joints or insulating
pipe) to the points of connection of the grounding electrode
conductor and the bonding conductors. Interior metal
water piping located more than 1.52 m (5 ft) from the point of
entrance to the building shall not be used as a part of the
grounding electrode system or as a conductor to interconnect
electrodes that are part of the grounding electrode system.
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05-01-2012, 01:03 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: victoria bc, canada
Posts: 121
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usually when i do a service I use a buried ground plate with a #6awg copper to the panel. Also I bond the water piping and gas lines as per CSA standards.
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05-03-2012, 11:07 AM
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#16
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Bergen county, NJ
Posts: 94
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Dennis, if you could clear this up for me. We've discussed in the past, for example, a single family 400a service that would consist of a meter with two 200a mains that in turn feed two 200a MLO panels. 31015(B)(6) is not used to size the feeder that runs between the main and the panel, we both agree on this. The op has a multifamily installation and is wiring it in a very similar fashion as I have described above. The op will be using, I assume, #2 AL se, to feed the 100a panels. Now, because this is a multfamily dwelling one can use 310.15(B)(6) to size the sub feeders?
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05-05-2012, 10:05 PM
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#17
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Bergen county, NJ
Posts: 94
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Never mind Dennis, I figured it out.
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