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Old 04-13-2010, 05:58 PM   #21
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The part I don't care about is being judged by someone on an Internet forum who knows nothing about who I am and I have never met.
I don't need to know you or know about your personality. Mixing and matching different breakers in a panelboard is a code violation and amateur level work at best. You judge a job by a Carlon boxes. If I see mix and match breakers in a panel I know right away I'm dealing with an amateur electrician or a DIY.

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LOTS of EC's have committed this "sin".. but keep it to themselves
I couldn't care less how many people do it. It's still a violation and looks unprofessional. And you didn't keep it to yourself so now you're open to criticism, just like the buried splice boxes.

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Old 04-13-2010, 06:25 PM   #22
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Calm down Peter!
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Old 04-13-2010, 06:29 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Romex Butcher View Post
I don't need to know you or know about your personality. Mixing and matching different breakers in a panelboard is a code violation and amateur level work at best. You judge a job by a Carlon boxes. If I see mix and match breakers in a panel I know right away I'm dealing with an amateur electrician or a DIY.



I couldn't care less how many people do it. It's still a violation and looks unprofessional. And you didn't keep it to yourself so now you're open to criticism, just like the buried splice boxes.
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Old 04-13-2010, 06:34 PM   #24
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OK, I see. I get criticized for saying we should actually follow the code.
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Old 04-13-2010, 08:11 PM   #25
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Murry is Siemens economy line, basically the cheapest panel made. Some consumers want the cheapest available, most will pay more for quality. If someone is violating code with the things you can obviously see like interchanging breakers, you must wonder what is hidden behind the walls.
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Old 04-13-2010, 08:12 PM   #26
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I don't really care for any of the 1" breaker designs.

I prefer CH-CH first, and Square D's QO second. The only time I use a panel that takes 1" breakers is when I'm matching other panels in the same building.
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Old 04-13-2010, 08:43 PM   #27
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Murry is Siemens economy line, basically the cheapest panel made. Some consumers want the cheapest available, most will pay more for quality. If someone is violating code with the things you can obviously see like interchanging breakers, you must wonder what is hidden behind the walls.

That was a shot at me and you would be wrong

If Murray bought out GE tomorrow and slapped a label on the panel listing Murray breakers, just what would change that made it fit "better'

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Old 04-13-2010, 09:33 PM   #28
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I really like Siemens panels. Copper Bus, Machine screws on the cover, lots of room to work with...

I will not purchase cutler hammer because of issues I have had with their arc faults however their customer service is great
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Old 04-13-2010, 09:42 PM   #29
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I don't really care for any of the 1" breaker designs.

I prefer CH-CH first, and Square D's QO second. The only time I use a panel that takes 1" breakers is when I'm matching other panels in the same building.
So you never install a 1" design panelboard for a new installation then?
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Old 04-13-2010, 09:46 PM   #30
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Murry is Siemens economy line, basically the cheapest panel made. Some consumers want the cheapest available, most will pay more for quality. If someone is violating code with the things you can obviously see like interchanging breakers, you must wonder what is hidden behind the walls.
I think it's a toss-up between Murray and GE...Murray is one of the cheaper panels, yet somehow they cost more at my supply house than a square d costs at the Depot with breakers!...
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Old 04-13-2010, 09:48 PM   #31
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Its not a shot on anyone. I wrote it to encourage folks to think.
GM makes Chevy's and Cadillac's, they have different price points and features. If you are on a budget you buy a stripped down Chevy, if you want a nicer car you buy a loaded Cadillac. Both will get you back and forth to work.
Siemens makes a low budget line, Murry. To produce them cheaper they use material like aluminum instead of copper for the buss. They also make the Siemens line, it is higher priced because they use uses copper buss and the neutral blocks are better. The market exists for both economy and premium panels. Square D came out with the low budget Homeline series to compete with Murry but they still make higher price QO line. You and you customer must weigh the benefits of a premium verses economy equipment.
As for the mixed breakers in a panel. Lets say two similar homes in a subdivision are on the market. Enter the home inspector, a report is written. One house has this obvious code violation, the other has no violations, which home will sell for a higher price and quicker? Would a easy to see code violation make one wonder what else was done in violation or would you assume that everything was done correctly?
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Old 04-13-2010, 09:59 PM   #32
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I think it's a toss-up between Murray and GE...Murray is one of the cheaper panels, yet somehow they cost more at my supply house than a square d costs at the Depot with breakers!...
Toss ups I go with with the American company. GE and Eaton (Cuttler Hammer) are American companies, Siemens is German, Snyder Electric (Square D) is French. I like my money to stay locally as possible.
Oh, GE has a copper buss, it will take heat better and last longer.
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:03 PM   #33
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Toss ups I go with with the American company. GE and Eaton (Cuttler Hammer) are American companies, Siemens is German, Snyder Electric (Square D) is French. I like my money to stay locally as possible.
Oh, GE has a copper buss, it will take heat better and last longer.
IIRC Cutler Hammer breakers are made in the Dominican Republic, Murray/Siemens and SqD are made in Mexico, and GE breakers say made in USA but are actually made in Puerto Rico while others are made in Singapore.

I think the panelboards themselves are American made of all those companies, but I'm not 100% sure.
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:04 PM   #34
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Toss ups I go with with the American company. GE and Eaton (Cuttler Hammer) are American companies, Siemens is German, Snyder Electric (Square D) is French. I like my money to stay locally as possible.
Oh, GE has a copper buss, it will take heat better and last longer.
Don't care...GE is made crappy...I don;t like it...Cuttlet hammer seems ok...I get the best value with the Homeline though...
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:04 PM   #35
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So you never install a 1" design panelboard for a new installation then?
I have, on occasion, where price was the main concern (HUD rehab jobs, etc.). I'm never especially proud of the fact.
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:07 PM   #36
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I have, on occasion, where price was the main concern (HUD rehab jobs, etc.). I'm never especially proud of the fact.
Why are you against 1'' breakers?....Is the CHCH the one with the brown handles?
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:08 PM   #37
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I use SqD Homeline all the time because it is so cheap yet you can sell the homeowner on the super top quality Square D product
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:10 PM   #38
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Why are you against 1'' breakers?....Is the CHCH the one with the brown handles?
Yeah, tan handles and the breakers and panelboards are double the cost of Homeline or Murray/Siemens. It's not common in my area and hardly anyone uses it (certainly not in new houses), but I picked up some CH-CH stuff when Lowes closed it all out and I'm very impressed by the quality.
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:10 PM   #39
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Why are you against 1'' breakers?....Is the CHCH the one with the brown handles?
Yeah. The Cutler Hammer "CH" line is the 3/4" breakers with the brown handles.

What do I have against 1" breakers? Nothing, except that they're more prone to bus connection failures than any other style.
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:11 PM   #40
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IIRC Cutler Hammer breakers are made in the Dominican Republic, Murray/Siemens and SqD are made in Mexico, and GE breakers say made in USA but are actually made in Puerto Rico while others are made in Singapore.

I think the panelboards themselves are American made of all those companies, but I'm not 100% sure.
Last I checked Puerto Rico was part of the USA.
Think of Nike, they are a American company, make nothing here, but almost all the profits come back to the USA and are invested here.

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