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Old 08-06-2019, 08:09 AM   #1
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Default Troubleshooting set

I’ve got a service call next week customer has a problem with data lines in a home after a re model. Keeps dropping out. Provider told them to hire an electrician.

What’s a good test set that I can certify cables end to end?
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Old 08-06-2019, 11:10 AM   #2
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https://www.amazon.com/Greenlee-1573.../dp/B0002XV090

I have this one, pre Greenlee rebranding it's cheap. Has lots of functions like also acting as a toner (meh) but the reason it sticks around is the pair checker. Plug it in one end of the Jack, plug it's buddy in at the other end and it ticks it's way through the pair's. Bought it 15 years ago after I screwed up 5/5 data jacks haha.... because I didn't have a punch down tool.
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Old 08-06-2019, 11:39 AM   #3
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. try this
https://www.primecables.ca/p-312476-...es_sub_catalog this tests each plug or jack or cable connections end to end and can hear with toner as well. Not certify test only.


https://d3e54emdgoy1fq.cloudfront.ne...imeCables-.jpg

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Old 08-06-2019, 01:23 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batwing44 View Post
. try this
https://www.primecables.ca/p-312476-...es_sub_catalog this tests each plug or jack or cable connections end to end and can hear with toner as well. Not certify test only.


https://d3e54emdgoy1fq.cloudfront.ne...imeCables-.jpg
I have something similar and it works fine for what I do. It won't measure speed or cross talk or anything like that, just continuity/pinout. The jump in price from a tester like this to a cable certifier is huge.

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Old 08-06-2019, 05:39 PM   #5
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https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-To...823R/205209866

this one works good....i have the model that can measure cable distance good for checking for POE distances
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Old 08-06-2019, 07:07 PM   #6
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Pretty sure this is the cheapest actual certifier?

It dies not really seem like a certifier us what you need though to me?

And it turns out that i can not post links either.

It is the Byte Brothers certifier.


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Old 08-06-2019, 07:08 PM   #7
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Pretty sure this is the cheapest actual certifier?

It dies not really seem like a certifier us what you need though to me?

And it turns out that i can not post links either.

It is the Byte Brothers certifier.


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RWC1000k2 is the model


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Old 08-06-2019, 07:30 PM   #8
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There's a major (price) difference between certifying, and testing. Certifying includes a printout of the results, testing doesn't. For testing all you need is a Mod-Tap.
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Old 08-06-2019, 07:33 PM   #9
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There's a major (price) difference between certifying, and testing. Certifying includes a printout of the results, testing doesn't. For testing all you need is a Mod-Tap.
And this is pretty much what I was wanting to say but could not from the phone.
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Old 08-06-2019, 07:58 PM   #10
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That Byte Brothers is not a real deal certifier, just because it prints a report doesn't make it a certifier.
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:09 PM   #11
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OK

My real pint was that the lines sound like they need troubleshooting before any thought of certifying and I have never needed to certify a residential service line anyway.
I have a feeling the question is really just about how to start troubleshooting the issue?
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Old 08-06-2019, 11:49 PM   #12
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OK

My real pint was that the lines sound like they need troubleshooting before any thought of certifying and I have never needed to certify a residential service line anyway.
I have a feeling the question is really just about how to start troubleshooting the issue?
I agree with that part, in this case what's a "real" certifier is a moot point because a simple tester that checks for shorts and miswires will find 99% of problems and is all he needs.
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Old 08-19-2019, 01:18 PM   #13
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I agree with that part, in this case what's a "real" certifier is a moot point because a simple tester that checks for shorts and miswires will find 99% of problems and is all he needs.



You guys are probably right. Old shop I used to work at had this really nice Fluke that we would install the cables with the appropriate ends and then test/certify them. Granted there was no training provided we were just handed the meter and told to go run some cables and make it work. That's what I was used to working with but not what I need for this little dinky job. just a simple tester that tests for shorts and miswires.


Thanks
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Old 08-19-2019, 04:15 PM   #14
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Most data cabling problems will be caught just fine what the cheap $20 Chinese tester referenced in this thread. Mine looks almost identical. Only run into one in my life that passed this test, but had bandwidth issues. Just reterminated both sides, and everything worked fine. Former employer had greenlee testers that perform similar functions to another one posted here - pair mapping and toning. He also had the byte Brothers one. It works well for the rare circumstance he needed to "certify" a cable. Only thing I didn't like about that, was the test results had to be cleared out with a laptop and couldn't be done directly on the device
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Old 08-19-2019, 04:21 PM   #15
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check the terminations. If they are wired correctly most drop outs or packet errors are caused by bad terminations. Re punch both ends and make sure you maintain the twist in each pair. Then I would use Speedtest.net to test unless you have a tester that will push data over the links
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Old 08-19-2019, 04:23 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
Most data cabling problems will be caught just fine what the cheap $20 Chinese tester referenced in this thread. Mine looks almost identical. Only run into one in my life that passed this test, but had bandwidth issues. Just reterminated both sides, and everything worked fine. Former employer had greenlee testers that perform similar functions to another one posted here - pair mapping and toning. He also had the byte Brothers one. It works well for the rare circumstance he needed to "certify" a cable. Only thing I didn't like about that, was the test results had to be cleared out with a laptop and couldn't be done directly on the device
My brother is working at a company and they have 4 fluke DSX 8000 certifiers. Pretty sweet.
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Old 08-22-2019, 11:32 AM   #17
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check the terminations. If they are wired correctly most drop outs or packet errors are caused by bad terminations. Re punch both ends and make sure you maintain the twist in each pair. Then I would use Speedtest.net to test unless you have a tester that will push data over the links
Try testmy.net instead.
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Old 08-23-2019, 11:09 PM   #18
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Okay, here is my take on this. I don't want a cheap rinky-dink tester. I at least want something that has some thought behind it. This is because for any data job I do, by far, the most expensive part of the job is my time. The VDV scout looks like it might be alright. Personally, I got this one for our shop:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ideal-To...-866/300497271


I'm a bit peeved off that I found that kit on the home depot website. I ended up having to buy the probe with a toner + the VDV setup, AND I had to make my own patch cables to test with for coax, ethernet, etc. Anywho, I've tested around 225 cables since the end of December and have not had any issues. That tester is also a toner, by the way. You can plug into the cable, set it on tone. Take the test jack out of the bottom with you. Go find the cable. Put the test jack on it, then push the appropriate tester button. Label it, and on to the next.
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Old 08-23-2019, 11:42 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by sparkiez View Post
Okay, here is my take on this. I don't want a cheap rinky-dink tester. I at least want something that has some thought behind it. This is because for any data job I do, by far, the most expensive part of the job is my time. The VDV scout looks like it might be alright.
The basic functions you need are to check for shorts, opens, and pinout. This will find and correct 99.99% of problems as well as anything. Literally. One in 10,000 it will miss if you know what you're doing in the first place.

The next bump is one that checks for split pairs and length. This is a significant bump in cost. Finding split pairs is for someone that can't read the instructions for the jack, they make the same mistake at both ends so the pinout is right but the pairs aren't where they should be. If you pay attention to your layout it's rare to go over distance. IMO it's necessary for testing someone else's work, but not my own.

The certifiers are seeing if the finished product performs to spec. If you use quality products and terminate with decent workmanship it will be extremely rare to discover a problem with a cable that the certifier can see that a simple tester can't. They had their place in the early days of high performance cabling, when Category 5 was new. They have their place today where people are trying to run 10Gbit over marginal legacy systems. But for the vast majority of installs these days, unnecessary.

The main reason people need certifiers is because for decades IT geeks have read that the right way to do QA on a cable plant installation is the use of a certifier, and they write the certification into job specs in government and institutional, and large corporate projects. I can tell you with 110% certainty, you'll get much better QA with a medium tester that does wiremap, length, and split pairs, performed by a neutral third party (not the installer) than a $6000 certifier run by the installer.

I have seen this many times:

Installer installs. Can't wait to test and get paid.
Tests a cable with certifier; fails; reterminates; fails again.
Tests a nearby cable, saves it as the result for the failed cable. Downloads bogus results from tester, submits, gets paid; moves on with life.
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Last edited by splatz; 08-23-2019 at 11:51 PM.
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Old 08-24-2019, 10:22 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by splatz View Post
The basic functions you need are to check for shorts, opens, and pinout. This will find and correct 99.99% of problems as well as anything. Literally. One in 10,000 it will miss if you know what you're doing in the first place.

The next bump is one that checks for split pairs and length. This is a significant bump in cost. Finding split pairs is for someone that can't read the instructions for the jack, they make the same mistake at both ends so the pinout is right but the pairs aren't where they should be. If you pay attention to your layout it's rare to go over distance. IMO it's necessary for testing someone else's work, but not my own.

The certifiers are seeing if the finished product performs to spec. If you use quality products and terminate with decent workmanship it will be extremely rare to discover a problem with a cable that the certifier can see that a simple tester can't. They had their place in the early days of high performance cabling, when Category 5 was new. They have their place today where people are trying to run 10Gbit over marginal legacy systems. But for the vast majority of installs these days, unnecessary.

The main reason people need certifiers is because for decades IT geeks have read that the right way to do QA on a cable plant installation is the use of a certifier, and they write the certification into job specs in government and institutional, and large corporate projects. I can tell you with 110% certainty, you'll get much better QA with a medium tester that does wiremap, length, and split pairs, performed by a neutral third party (not the installer) than a $6000 certifier run by the installer.

I have seen this many times:

Installer installs. Can't wait to test and get paid.
Tests a cable with certifier; fails; reterminates; fails again.
Tests a nearby cable, saves it as the result for the failed cable. Downloads bogus results from tester, submits, gets paid; moves on with life.


Agreed.

Don’t forget you can rent a fluke DTX for a small fee to do the certification after the whole install is complete.

The key to selecting a testing unit is the speed of the tester. Fluke is about 10 seconds and other testers are 30-60 seconds. Time is money!


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