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1st hand Ground Down story

9K views 40 replies 24 participants last post by  Jlarson 
#1 · (Edited)
I saw in the contractor talk area under a thread called common problems where a number of electricians had only 3rd hand knowledge of ground down trouble. JohnValdes and 480Sparky among them.
I don't know how to sign in to that part of this site so here it is.

That said, here is my story. I was planning an addition to my house and had been measuring my rooms so I could get a good as-built.
My daughter, about 3 or 4 at the time, decided to get the tapemeasure and measure the room.
She ran the tapemeasure into a corner behind my computer which had an outlet ground down. I had plugged in a surge protector which had a metal case, industrial style. It was slightly sagged out of the recep.

The tape dropped down in the slot between the case and wall plate.

Blowing a small hole at the edge of the tapemeasure (1) She dropped the tape and started crying and it started rewinding a little and then started shorting again at (2)

When my wife got there, the tape was on the ground and still behind the desk . She picked it up and the tape flipped somehow and started sparking again.(3)
(ignore the chip out)
Strange thing my computer was off but somehow my modem fried. It wasn't even plugged into that surge protector.
I thank God that my daughter wasn't hurt in all this but firmly believe that if the outlet was ground up it wouldn't have been possible to happen.
 
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#2 ·
just a couple questions:

1) do you think an arc fault breaker would have prevented the issue ?

2) why stop at ground up or down ? why not have a ground ring all the way around the receptacle. why not require every receptacle to be twist lock , or have bare grounded plates ?

my point - ground up or ground down is little or no benefit and doesn't solve the problem you listed. That does not mean there isn't a safer solution , however.
 
#4 ·
I am sorry that your daughter was scared but I have to wonder about basic electricity. The current/sparking incident would have occurred at the receptacle. It would be at that point where the hot to neutral fault would have occurred. I don't see any way that a modem would have been fried as a result of that incident. The fault current would have occurred outside of the equipment.
 
#7 ·
What I think may have happened was the tape laid against the grounded case and somehow because the computer was off and the modem was plugged into a different surge protector, it took a ground path through the phone wires instead somehow.

I forgot to mention , the house was built in 1927 and although most of the wiring was replaced before I bought it, some old bx was still in there. I don't remember if that outlet had any in the circuit.
 
#13 ·
............ She dropped the tape and........ it started rewinding a little and then started shorting again at (2)...........
So at this point, you're saying it's impossible for the tape to have come in contact with both the ground and the hot?

........When my wife got there, the tape was on the ground and still behind the desk . She picked it up and the tape flipped somehow and started sparking again.(3)
(ignore the chip out)
.............
Again, you're saying it's impossible for the tape to have come in contact with both the ground and the hot?
 
#14 ·
So at this point, you're saying it's impossible for the tape to have come in contact with both the ground and the hot?



Again, you're saying it's impossible for the tape to have come in contact with both the ground and the hot?
No not in this particular case but that was just because the case of the SP was metal and grounded.

Just to make sure I am reading you correctly, I am referring to the grounding cond. not grounded. If it was a normal cord or case ,yes it would have been impossible. IMO
 
#31 ·
i dont think the problem was ground up or ground down i think the problem was a ****ty receptacle that didnt have enough holding power to hold the plug all the way in. replace that receptacle with a good one :)

only reason i put the ground down is because i think it looks better. a ground up receptacle is ugly IMO. i put ground facing right when i put them horizontal.
 
#34 ·
Interesting debate.....I've always wondered about this myself. I prefer ground down, it looks better and yes, most devices seem to be designed for ground down, BUT I can see the logic in mounting them ground up, it DOES seem much more likely that a metal object will cross the blades by falling on top, rather than by reaching up from the bottom. It's been a while since I noticed, but don't some manufacturers have wording or logos which are oriented to be read ground up?
 
#39 ·
I just deviced an office space, all 60 outlets ground up. metal plates fall on the ground if they ever come loose, looks ugly for ahole tenant of my customer, inconvenient if 90 plug has ground on bottom
 
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