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Old 07-03-2019, 04:33 PM   #1
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Default Is an IEC apprenticeship legit?

The IEC seems to be centered around Washington DC. Representatives I have spoken to on the phone from the program seem to have no sense of where I am located or where contractors for any of their programs are located or operate job sites. In addition to the little information they are capable of providing me they want a $100 application fee. Does this sound typical? These characteristics make it seem like some sort of scheme to me. Can anyone vouche for the IEC?
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Old 07-03-2019, 06:31 PM   #2
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I'm not a fan. They seem to use it to hustle around paying Prevailing Wage.
I would avoid it unless somehow they wanted to invest in you.
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Old 07-03-2019, 07:01 PM   #3
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IEC is a training organization, and a contractor group.

It's similar to the IBEW, but it's not a union, and they do not have a formal contractor/worker agreement.

They train apprentices, and journeyman (for a fee), and refer workers to contractors.

I have a couple friends who went through their program, and earn decent money as journeyman.

In my opinion, the IBEW is a better program, and helps workers earn more money. The union employees are paid from worker dues, but I've found it's worthwhile. The IBEW does not charge apprentices for school.
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Old 07-03-2019, 07:02 PM   #4
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The IEC seems to be centered around Washington DC. Representatives I have spoken to on the phone from the program seem to have no sense of where I am located or where contractors for any of their programs are located or operate job sites. In addition to the little information they are capable of providing me they want a $100 application fee. Does this sound typical? These characteristics make it seem like some sort of scheme to me. Can anyone vouche for the IEC?
The IEC is a fine program, in fact, I know the guy that wrote the textbooks that they are moving to very soon. They are not like a union so they don't really have a pool of contractors that use them. The IEC is simply a training organization that is approved by the DOL, I know they have a pretty heavy presence in NJ.
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Old 07-03-2019, 07:13 PM   #5
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I took code class last fall with them. Here in St. Louis, they just completed a new facility for apprentices. I typed in "Chesapeake, OH IEC apprenticeship addresses for classes near me". Got a "Laurel, MD." and a "Dulles, VA." addresses to choose from.
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Old 07-03-2019, 07:25 PM   #6
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I'm not a fan. They seem to use it to hustle around paying Prevailing Wage.
I would avoid it unless somehow they wanted to invest in you.
not in the least, they have an expensive program that looks like poor training. I would agree with your assessment.
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Old 07-03-2019, 07:34 PM   #7
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not in the least, they have an expensive program that looks like poor training. I would agree with your assessment.
Have you ever taken a class with IEC at anytime, anywhere in the United States, to make your "assessment" ?
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Old 07-03-2019, 08:13 PM   #8
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I took some code update classes at the Atlanta chapter years ago. And worked with some of their apprenticeship graduates. Seemed decent enough.
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Old 07-03-2019, 10:01 PM   #9
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Have you ever taken a class with IEC at anytime, anywhere in the United States, to make your "assessment" ?
I was there when they started out, the 4 people I knew that went IEC, left the trade. I don’t know how to defend that.
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Old 07-04-2019, 09:13 AM   #10
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What point are you at for apprenticeship? Just starting out with no training? Typically two routes people go, union or non union. There is classroom training regardless, usually at least 4 yrs. The goal is to get your journeyman's license if you are in an area that requires one. I can't speak for union training, sounds really good. From the non union side of things, its usually nights that follow the public school year. Two or three nights a week and a regular work day. Ideally, your company picks up the bill or at least reimburses you for successfully passing the classes yearly. It ranges from interesting sometimes to painfully dull. It's something that you have to endure and make the best of. You meet people along the way, find out about other contractors, who does what, pay, work conditions. Start making connections. It won't be perfect by any stretch, with work experience being more important.

And as it has been mentioned in other threads, you need to make sure from the beginning, that you have a method of keeping track of your hours so that if you change employers, you get credit for the time there and at the end you can show you have enough to test for the journeyman's. While the companies are supposed to do this for you, your mileage may vary. Look out for yourself, you worked hard for this.
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Last edited by nrp3; 07-04-2019 at 09:17 AM.
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Old 07-04-2019, 10:53 AM   #11
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Very good observation. Don't expect anyone to properly and completely keep up your documentation.
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Old 07-04-2019, 11:31 AM   #12
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Have you ever taken a class with IEC at anytime, anywhere in the United States, to make your "assessment" ?
I haven't taken any classes by the IEC. I make this "assesment" based on them suggesting a 100% online portion of the classroom section because of where I am located (20mins from Naval station Norfolk) which left me feeling like they were asking a large sum of money for this experience because as I understand it, as an IEC apprentice you must still seek employment independently. I bet they are a fine orginization to recertify through.
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Old 07-04-2019, 11:37 AM   #13
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What point are you at for apprenticeship? Just starting out with no training? Typically two routes people go, union or non union. There is classroom training regardless, usually at least 4 yrs. The goal is to get your journeyman's license if you are in an area that requires one. I can't speak for union training, sounds really good. From the non union side of things, its usually nights that follow the public school year. Two or three nights a week and a regular work day. Ideally, your company picks up the bill or at least reimburses you for successfully passing the classes yearly. It ranges from interesting sometimes to painfully dull. It's something that you have to endure and make the best of. You meet people along the way, find out about other contractors, who does what, pay, work conditions. Start making connections. It won't be perfect by any stretch, with work experience being more important.

And as it has been mentioned in other threads, you need to make sure from the beginning, that you have a method of keeping track of your hours so that if you change employers, you get credit for the time there and at the end you can show you have enough to test for the journeyman's. While the companies are supposed to do this for you, your mileage may vary. Look out for yourself, you worked hard for this.
Im waiting to hear back from my IBEW organizer on how the interviews went. I feel confident however would like to stay on the hunt. I think the IBEW is my golden ticket but am trying to prepare myself to find another way to journeyman cert if needed. Thank you for your advice for thoes gearing up for a non union apprenticeship
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Old 07-04-2019, 11:42 AM   #14
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Try to avoid paying anyone large sums of money for the classroom training. Let your employer do that. An all online version could work if you are motivated enough. And definitely make sure it meets the State's or whomever regulates licensing's requirements for classroom training for journeyman's licensing.
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Old 07-04-2019, 12:06 PM   #15
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I took code class last fall with them. Here in St. Louis, they just completed a new facility for apprentices. I typed in "Chesapeake, OH IEC apprenticeship addresses for classes near me". Got a "Laurel, MD." and a "Dulles, VA." addresses to choose from.
Interesting that you got the same search results for Chesapeake, OH that I got when I searched Chesapeake, VA. What confuses me further is why i was not associated with the Alexandria office, closer to Chesapeake VA Geographically.
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Old 07-04-2019, 12:20 PM   #16
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Try to avoid paying anyone large sums of money for the classroom training. Let your employer do that. An all online version could work if you are motivated enough. And definitely make sure it meets the State's or whomever regulates licensing's requirements for classroom training for journeyman's licensing.
You are right, an all online version could work. I took online math classes in college and did just fine. That being said I knew the educational experience was different and I would like to be the best tradesman I can be. Where I am really caught up when it comes to persuing a non union apprenticeship is like where to start, it seems best to talk to a contractor so you know that he sees merit in you and your program down the line but on the other hand it seems like some contractors have an established way of employing electrical labor I'm not familiar with. Can you offer any insight on how independent contractors get electrical labor?
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Old 07-04-2019, 02:19 PM   #17
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Around here, and probably most anywhere, applying for this job isn't unlike any other. You show up, reply to an add, maybe you know someone who knows a contractor that needs help. I think things are still good around here and probably not too tough to get a non union apprenticeship. It's not really that formal or structured. Some of the big ones here might teach there own classes. It could be as easy as going to a supply house counter (preferably when they aren't so busy) and ask if they know of any contractors looking for apprentices. If it were here, I'd make a few calls and find out who might be interested. Helps when you know people. Being part of a contractor organization helps. If you want a non union job, just get out there and introduce yourself. You have to start somewhere, but look out for your well being along the way. Show up, shut up, and just work hard. There is plenty of need for good young talent. It's nice to have some experience, but you'll get molded into what we need if you provide the effort.
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Old 07-04-2019, 02:24 PM   #18
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I was there when they started out, the 4 people I knew that went IEC, left the trade. I don’t know how to defend that.
You where there in Texas back in 1957?
Here in St. Louis, for ibew, "Henry's Boy" which is a term that describes "sons" "grandsons" "nephews" etc that drop out. For the actual "Henry's boy" it was 3 times. How do you defend that? Knowing that others, if allowed the opportunity wouldn't have needed a 2nd and 3rd chance. Back in 1992 I had 3-ibew local-1 contractors that wanted to hire me, but they weren't allowed to. I was not allowed to test, (hands on or written) or interview or stand before a board ever. How do you defend that? So what was I supposed to do, be a carpenter or something? At my shop today, we have a 60yr guy from St. Louis who went from high school, to Ranken Tech which has been around since 1907, from the same location since 1907. This 60yr guy then got hire at Guarantee Electric which is a local-1 contractor in St. Louis since 1904. There he worked under a "temporary work permit". He liked working for them and GUARANTEE ELECTRIC WANTED HIM TO DO AN APPRENTICESHIP. However, ibew local-l said no and he had to go. Without ever testing/interviewing he was forced out by local-1. He never got back in and worked elsewhere. How do you defend that? Eventually coming to my shop 2 years ago, because Crane America (who he was working for) went out of business. We are very fortunate to have him. We've had some local-1 electricians come and go and stay and quite frankly some of them are "marginal" employees. Oh sure they're good installers but a little dangerous with a volt/ohm meter and lost with out prints or as-builds. Several years ago I read an article in a pub called "EC". I believe it to be Electrical Contractors news or something. Sachs Electric of St. Louis stated that it was having a hard time coming up with decent Electrical Foremans in the St. Louis area and that there would be a shortage today. Sachs even rumored to consider closing it's electrical unit in the St. Louis area. Why? Could it be they are stuck with what ibew gives them? How do you defend that?

When ibew denies you the right to work for an ibew contractor, does that mean ibew has the right to deny you from working in the electrical industry? How do you defend that? ibew has been convicted of unfair hiring practices going all the way back to 1940 (look it up). ibew was a leading factor for Federal and State governments to invent Affirmative action, which screws people like me, because "sons" and POS "sons" always get in. How do you defend that? Today, 2019 ibew local-1 thru the Airport Electric Shop steward, who has since left, stated that local-1 is willing to represent us for free or we can go down to it's hall and go to work right away. The 60yr old guy and me just looked at each other and back to the local-1 guy and laughed. That's rich, why would we want to do that? Why go down to your hall today. Get assigned to some 31yr old foreman that's lost and sweating bullets trying to get a job done. Pay full dues knowing we're not eligible for retirement pay/health care because we don't have an ibew journeyman's card, which are based on NEPOTISM.


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Last edited by stiffneck; 07-04-2019 at 02:31 PM.
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Old 07-04-2019, 04:04 PM   #19
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You where there in Texas back in 1957?
Here in St. Louis, for ibew, "Henry's Boy" which is a term that describes "sons" "grandsons" "nephews" etc that drop out. For the actual "Henry's boy" it was 3 times. How do you defend that? Knowing that others, if allowed the opportunity wouldn't have needed a 2nd and 3rd chance. Back in 1992 I had 3-ibew local-1 contractors that wanted to hire me, but they weren't allowed to. I was not allowed to test, (hands on or written) or interview or stand before a board ever. How do you defend that? So what was I supposed to do, be a carpenter or something? At my shop today, we have a 60yr guy from St. Louis who went from high school, to Ranken Tech which has been around since 1907, from the same location since 1907. This 60yr guy then got hire at Guarantee Electric which is a local-1 contractor in St. Louis since 1904. There he worked under a "temporary work permit". He liked working for them and GUARANTEE ELECTRIC WANTED HIM TO DO AN APPRENTICESHIP. However, ibew local-l said no and he had to go. Without ever testing/interviewing he was forced out by local-1. He never got back in and worked elsewhere. How do you defend that? Eventually coming to my shop 2 years ago, because Crane America (who he was working for) went out of business. We are very fortunate to have him. We've had some local-1 electricians come and go and stay and quite frankly some of them are "marginal" employees. Oh sure they're good installers but a little dangerous with a volt/ohm meter and lost with out prints or as-builds. Several years ago I read an article in a pub called "EC". I believe it to be Electrical Contractors news or something. Sachs Electric of St. Louis stated that it was having a hard time coming up with decent Electrical Foremans in the St. Louis area and that there would be a shortage today. Sachs even rumored to consider closing it's electrical unit in the St. Louis area. Why? Could it be they are stuck with what ibew gives them? How do you defend that?

When ibew denies you the right to work for an ibew contractor, does that mean ibew has the right to deny you from working in the electrical industry? How do you defend that? ibew has been convicted of unfair hiring practices going all the way back to 1940 (look it up). ibew was a leading factor for Federal and State governments to invent Affirmative action, which screws people like me, because "sons" and POS "sons" always get in. How do you defend that? Today, 2019 ibew local-1 thru the Airport Electric Shop steward, who has since left, stated that local-1 is willing to represent us for free or we can go down to it's hall and go to work right away. The 60yr old guy and me just looked at each other and back to the local-1 guy and laughed. That's rich, why would we want to do that? Why go down to your hall today. Get assigned to some 31yr old foreman that's lost and sweating bullets trying to get a job done. Pay full dues knowing we're not eligible for retirement pay/health care because we don't have an ibew journeyman's card, which are based on NEPOTISM.


THANK GOD FOR THIS COUNTRY AND INDEPENDENCE DAY.
Fuxk in bred electrical workers club
I get where you are coming from. Where there's power there is corruption and the "right to work" is valuable. Something I learned at a young age is that somtimes a guy will not pay you for a job if he can for a variety of reasons. The union part is what I think attracts a lot of guys. Also all the Henry's boys gotta go somewhere, no one ever learned anything without messing up first. That being said it is unfortunate you have not had experiences to deem the IBEW a meritocracy.

Stiffneck, when you started did you want training or just a job? I remember you telling me in another thread you didnt consider yourself engaged in a career. Myself, i could go for training, i hope the IBEW calls me on monday and says its on but what i really want is to say is "i bought this truck with this electrical job and well see where it goes from there. This is the sentiment i approach this with. I genuinely think the use and flow of electricity is cool.
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Old 07-04-2019, 04:07 PM   #20
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Around here, and probably most anywhere, applying for this job isn't unlike any other. You show up, reply to an add, maybe you know someone who knows a contractor that needs help. I think things are still good around here and probably not too tough to get a non union apprenticeship. It's not really that formal or structured. Some of the big ones here might teach there own classes. It could be as easy as going to a supply house counter (preferably when they aren't so busy) and ask if they know of any contractors looking for apprentices. If it were here, I'd make a few calls and find out who might be interested. Helps when you know people. Being part of a contractor organization helps. If you want a non union job, just get out there and introduce yourself. You have to start somewhere, but look out for your well being along the way. Show up, shut up, and just work hard. There is plenty of need for good young talent. It's nice to have some experience, but you'll get molded into what we need if you provide the effort.
I really like the idea of going to a supply house counter. Thats a great idea and suits the type of personality I have. Thanks for you're continually helpful insight and replys!
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